Club del Rafale

Duwa

Master of the Universe.
Efectos secundarios de la discusion.

Miren quienes publicaron a la pareja de Rafales F5 que hice en joda para German el Doc:

The DEW Line

Livefist: An Unofficial Stealth Rafale Fantasy

http://rafalenews.blogspot.com/2011/05/artist-view-of-stealthy-rafale.html?spref=tw

Que locura. De haberlo sabido, habria prestado un poco mas de atencion a algunos detallitos.

Te me hiciste internacional :cheers2:
Anonymous said...
A very poor concept attempt only feasible for video games. Not worth mentioning in an aerospace blog.

An F-15 version with canted tail fins and RAM coating was shown a while ago, but like this Rafale concept, would not make a noticeable difference against modern systems. The artist also failed to address key problems while also negating the Rafale's lifting body.
+1 jajajajaja! Toda la razon Mr Anonymous:yonofui:

Abrazo
 

SuperEtendard

Colaborador
Colaborador
Me parece que son de generaciones diferentes. Se puede decir con seguridad que el F-4 es contemporaneo del MiG-21 o 10 años mas tarde del MiG-23, mientras que el MiG-15 se media con el F-86 Sabre en Corea.
Saludos.

Tampoco.

El MIG-15 como el F-86 Sabre pertenecen a la 1ª Gen que incluye al Me-262 hasta el F-100 Super Sabre y el MIG-19 Farmer, etc.

El MIG-21 pertenece a la 2ª Gen que incluye al F-104, F-8, M-III y J-35, etc.

El F-4 pertenece a la 3ª Gen que incluye al MIG-23, MIG-25, MF-1, J-37, etc.

Saludos

---------- Post added at 05:03 ---------- Previous post was at 04:59 ----------

while also negating the Rafale's lifting body." WTF?

Che entre en un medio francés y me encuentro con tu Rafale....:hurray:

lo que 'e la internet!!!! :rofl:

Ese párrafo se refiere al diseño del Rafale, como dije, es un híbrido incluso aerodinamicamente. El Rafale es una mezcla de delta carnard con bodylifter.

Saludos
 

SuperEtendard

Colaborador
Colaborador


Así eran los CFT del Rafale en el 2001.

Aparentemente se está por cerrar el trato con EAU.

Saludos
 

SuperEtendard

Colaborador
Colaborador
Rafale in Combat: “War for Dummies”

(Source: defense-aerospace.com; posted May 31, 2011)

By Giovanni de Briganti


Two French air force Rafales, a single-seater and a two-seater, refuel on their way to Libya. Both carry AASM guided bombs, MICA air-to-air missiles and drop tanks, while the single-seater also carries a Damoclès targeting pod on its centerline pylon. (French AF photo)


RAFALETOWN, Corsica --- French air force Rafale combat aircraft deployed here as part of the UN-sanctioned Libyan No-Fly Zone are for the first time making full use of the aircraft’s “omnirole” capabilities, which allow a single aircraft to carry out the full gamut of missions during a single sortie.

Pilots of the eight-ship Rafale detachment based here at Solenzara air base in Corsica, and provisionally dubbed “Rafaletown,” routinely take off with four MICA air-to-air missiles, three or six AASM Hammer precision-guided bombs, a Thales Damoclès laser targeting pod or a Reco NG reconnaissance pod and two drop tanks. They can be tasked or re-tasked in flight, and routinely are, to fly combat air patrol, precision strike or reconnaissance missions during the same six- or seven-hour sortie.

The AASM, or Armement Air-Sol Modulaire which carries the NATO designation SBU-38, is a precision-guided bomb developed by Sagem, and exists in two versions, with inertial/GPS or inertial/GPS/infrared imaging guidance. A laser-guided version is being developed.

“Rafale was involved in Libya from Day One, and we fly several missions during a single sortie,” says detachment commander Lt. Col. Pierre G., stressing that “Omnirole Rafale” is not simply an advertising slogan but an accurate description of the aircraft’s very real capabilities. “Over Libya, the Rafale flies all kinds of missions, carrying out strike assignments and reconnaissance with the Reco NG pod while conducting our main mission, which is combat air patrol. Pierre G. and other Rafale pilots spoke to reporters during a two-day tour organized by the French defense procurement agency, DGA, and the companies involved in the Rafale program. Because of operational security, pilots are referred to by their first name, or not identified at all.

Pilots say the Rafale’s networked sensors and systems make their job much easier and much more effective than with previous-generation fighters. “Two Rafales carry as much ordnance as two Mirage 2000-5 and four Mirage 2000D combined,” notes Pierre G., adding that their sensor capabilities “are much greater even than that.”

The Rafales work in a truly networked environment, and are fed targeting and other tactical data from a wide range of coalition sources through the Link 16 datalink. Incoming data is combined with that collected by the aircraft’s own sensors – Thales SPECTRA self-protection suite, OSF electro-optics, RBE-2 radar and even the infra-red guided version of MBDA’s MICA air-to-air missile which, as it scans continuously, can provide IR imagery to the central data processing system. “MICA is not just a missile, it’s an extra sensor as well,” says Pierre G., and its detection range is much longer than generally supposed.

Data from all on-board and off-board sensors are combined into a single tactical picture presented to the pilot on the cockpit’s central color display or, if desired, on one of the lateral displays. The pilot can select the data he wants, combine it with other data, and pass it on to his wingman or to other allied aircraft, ships or ground troops through the Link 16, without speaking a single word on the radio and, if not using the radar, without any transmission whatsoever. Link 16 can also be used to de-conflict assignments with other aircraft without using radios.

To illustrate the Rafale’s networking capabilities, one pilot described how the aircraft can receive target coordinates from an AWACS or another aircraft via Link 16. To accept the assignment, the pilot pushes a button, and the coordinates are automatically programmed into the AASM guided bombs, with no further action by the pilot who, once in range (up to 30 nautical miles), again pushes a single button to launch all three – or all six – AASMs to their individual targets. “We can fire the AASM against targets abeam or behind us, and can hit up to six in a single pass,” the pilot continues.

At Solenzara, reporters were shown video footage taken during a ground attack mission in Libya, in which three tanks said to be firing against civilian targets were destroyed by simultaneous direct hits by AASM.

To avoid overloading the pilot, the aircraft’s central computer prioritizes targets according to the threat they represent, and there are also modes to de-clutter the radar scope. The pilot can also decide to concentrate on a given aspect of the mission, and come back to others aspects.



The flight line at Solenzara, showing a mix of single-seat and two-seat Rafale fighters. The base has been dubbed “Rafaletown” by French pilots. (French AF photo)


In a similar vein, the system analyzes and combines tactical information received from all sensors; for example, “if you receive a track from an AWACS, from your SPECTRA self-protection suite, or from your ‘wingee’ at the same time, the system will analyze all the inputs and show you only one track.”

Another pilot simply says that “the Rafale’s man-machine interface is so good it’s like ‘war for dummies’.”

Rafale pilots are also very complementary about their SPECTRA self-protection suite, which is of critical importance as France does not have any aircraft dedicated to the Suppression of Enemy Air Defenses (SEAD) missions. “SPECTRA allowed us to begin operations over Libya the very same day the political decision was taken, and to fly deep into Libyan territory without an escort,” says one pilot, adding that “the Americans also flew in, but only after they had fired 119 Tomahawks to take out Libyan air defenses.”

Rafale’s capabilities are changing the way the French air force operates. Previously, distinct pilot “communities” developed around each of the main missions flown – air defense, ground attack, strike, etc. – and lived more or less independently of each other. With the Rafale, however, this phenomenon is fading away since any unit, any aircraft and any pilot fly air-defense, strike or ground attack missions, as required. Specialization will disappear, several officers said, to be replaced by fewer but far more flexible aircraft and pilots.

“The idea that a single aircraft can be re-tasked in flight from reconnaissance to strike to interception during the same sortie is truly revolutionary, and we’re just now beginning to understand all that this implies,” says one officer.

This flexibility also translates into a major advantage for operational management, because any available Rafale can be tasked for any mission, without needing, as in the past, for a given aircraft-weapon combination to be available.

Missions from Solenzara are flown in two waves each day, one in daytime and the other at night, and the Rafales fire GPS-guided AASMs or laser-guided GBU-12 bombs on almost every mission. One Rafale also fired two Scalp cruise missiles, but so far the detachment has not fired the 30mm cannon as the minimum altitude mandated by the air staff is too high to use guns to good effect. Transit to Libya is flown at 50% power setting, which translates to Mach 0.9 cruise speed even with six AASM bombs and two large underwing drop tanks.

The detachment deployed at Solenzara comprises eight Rafales – a mix of single- and two-seaters – and three Mirage F-1CR dedicated reconnaissance aircraft, with 20 aircrew and supported by about 100 ground staff, 70% of them for Rafale, and 30 people to operate the intelligence detachment. Since Operation Harmattan (the French designation for enforcing the Libya No-Fly Zone) began on March 19, the detachment has flown 2,200 flight hours with over 1,500 in-flight refuellings, initially from their main operating base at Saint Dizier, in north-eastern France, and subsequently from Solenzara.

Aircraft turn-around, even with live weapons on board, requires only 90 minutes and an engine change requires one hour, although none have been changed during current operations.

Because of the time wasted flying from Solenzara to Libya, France is negotiating to transfer its Rafale detachment to Sigonella air base, in Sicily, which is much closer to the combat area. For the same reason, French air force Mirages have already been redeployed to Crete.

Maintenance requirements of the Rafale are about 25% lower than for the Mirage 2000, and there is no scheduled or preventive maintenance; maintenance depends only on the type of mission flown, and on the condition of components. Pilots at Solenzara say that, in just over two months of operations, no missions were aborted because of aircraft unavailability, and detachment commander Lt. Col. Pierre G. says that the availability rate is close to 100%.

Pilots interviewed for this story clearly love their aircraft. In addition to the electronics, they praise the comfort of their seat and its semi-reclined position, the effectiveness of the cockpit air conditioning (“I’ve never seen any condensation,” says one pilot) and the ease of adapting to the side-stick controller which, on Rafale, replaces the conventional central control stick. These are not necessarily major aspects, notes one pilot, “but after a few days of high-intensity combat, a Rafale pilot will be in much better shape than one flying another aircraft.”

Fuente Rafale in Combat: ?War for Dummies?

Saludos
 

Rober D

Moderador Intransigente
Miembro del Staff
Moderador
Excelente tu Diseño Buitreaux a ver la gente de FAdeA, urgentemente hay que adquirir la licencia de producción con derechos de modificación!!!:hurray:
P.D.: Están geniales...pero podes sacar un render con el camo del COAN..o similar actualizado a los tiempos que corren?
 

Grulla

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Colaborador
¿Cual es mejor, el Rafale o el Eurofighter? Según la REVISTA AEREA ABRIL / MAYO 2011 es mejor el Rafale, según dicen hasta un piloto de pruebas británico lo afirma. La única contra del Rafale es la potencia del motor


Link: Revista Aerea Abril/Mayo 2011
 

SuperEtendard

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Colaborador
Dicen que lo cortés no quita lo valiente...

El piloto británico al que hace referencia el artículo es Peter Collins que luego de probar el Rafale escribió el artículo "Rampant Rafale" donde efectivamente lo elogia.

Lo que debe ser destacado es que el Sr. Collins (piloto de Sharr en MLV) no había volado en el Tifón hasta ese momento.

Con esto quiero decir que si su opinión puede ser considerada válida con respecto al Rafale no lo sería con respecto al Tifón, lo que no deja de ser curioso es que fue el piloto de pruebas británico para el JSF...

En cuanto al Rafale y su falta de potencia...

Además de los artículos que ya subí donde pilotos de F-16 destacan su potencia o donde se relatan los resultados de BFM's contra Tifón y Raptor, en el último que subí se habla indirectamente del tema...

Transit to Libya is flown at 50% power setting, which translates to Mach 0.9 cruise speed even with six AASM bombs and two large underwing drop tanks.

Eso no es "subpotenciación".

Saludos
 

SuperEtendard

Colaborador
Colaborador
Un muy interesante artículo al respecto de Defense-Aerospace:

Rafale Upgrade Ready in 2012

Transcribo unos párrafos que hablan de la potencia instalada:

French air force pilots interviewed at Solenzara say that the current engine power allows them to fly all of their missions without limitations, and that on a seven-hour mission to Libya they can cruise at Mach 0.9 on a 50% power setting with a full ordnance load. They also say that operations in the United Arab Emirates, Afghanistan or other high-temperature areas have not shown a real need for more power, although they all agree that it would be nice to have.

Los pilotos del AdA entrevistados en Solenzara dicen que la potencia de los motores les permite volar todas sus misiones sin limitaciones, y en las misiones de 7 horas sobre Libia pueden volar en crucero a Mach 0.9 al 50% d la potencia con una carga completa. También dicen que en operaciones en los Emiratos Árabes Unidos, Afganistán u otras áreas de altas temperaturas no mostraron una real necesidad de mayor poder, aunque todos concuerdan que sería bueno tenerla.


Este comentario de los propios pilotos de Rafale desmiente la teoría de la falta de potencia del mismo.

Pero resulta muy interesante el siguiente párrafo:

Another reason for a 9-tonne engine, a source said June 6, is that the UAE want to carry three Black Shahine cruise missiles and three 2,000 liter drop tanks, where the French air force carries only two similar Scalp-ER missiles, each of which weighs 1,300 kg. “It’s clear that, when taking off with such a payload in very hot weather” – and in the Emirates temperatures can reach 50 degrees Celsius – “it’s better to take off with 18 tonnes of thrust than 15.”

Otra razón para el motor de 9 toneladas, una fuente dijo el 6 de junio, es que EAU quiere llevar 3 misiles de crucero Black Shahine y 3 tanques de combustible de 2.000 litros, cuando el AdA solo lleva 2 misiles similares Scalp-ER, pesando cada uno 1.300 kg. " Es claro que, cuando se despega con tal carga en un muy cálido clima" - y en los Emiratos las temperaturas pueden llegar a 50 °C - " es mejor despegar con 18 toneladas de empuje que con 15."

Aunque, a simple vista, las cuentas no dan este artículo en general y el párrafo anterior explican la necesidad del M88-X para el Rafale-9 de EAU...sólo hay que sacar las conclusiones lógicas al respecto.

Saludos
 

Duwa

Master of the Universe.
Tres tanques de combustible + tres misiles de crucero... tremenda capacidad disuasoria:svengo:.
Ahora me pregunto, como quedaria compuesta la FAA de EAU? El M-2009 se va o se queda? Porque seria un exelente interceptor y defensa de punto. Tiene mucha cuerda por delante. Los F-16 que funciones cumplirian si los Rafale son los interdictores profundos? Como sea que queden, son de temer estos tipos con esa capacidad de pegar duro y lejos.
 

SuperEtendard

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Colaborador
Los M2000-9 se van.

En el futuro el combo será Rafale-9 + F-35.

EAU tiene como HHCC a Irán. Su idea es tener los medios para anular cualquier objetivo dentro del territorio iraní, de ahí su equipo...además de tener dinero para tirar para arriba!!!:biggrinjester:

En cuanto al Rafale-9 un pequeño detalle: El Rafale tiene 5 pilones húmedos para cargas pesadas, es decir, que en el mejor de los casos puede llevar 3 depósitos de 2000 litros + 2 Scalp-EG (la que usa el AdA) o 2 depósitos de 2000 litros + 3 Scalp-EG. El Rafale-C no puede llevar 3 + 3, la única solución técnica es agregarle 2 CFT con 2.300 litros de combustible...pero eso implica un cambio importante: El Rafale-9 es mas pesado y por consiguiente tendrá un MTOW extendido, pasará de 24.5 ton. a aprox. 27 o 27.5 ton!!!

Por eso el Rafale-9 necesita motores M88-X de 9 ton...

Saludos
 

Juanma

Colaborador
Colaborador
Aumentas potencia en un avion que aumenta de peso.
Genial, seguimos en la misma.
Si queres tapar el sol con la mano bueno.

Ah, no era que mas potencia era para llevar 3 exocets? Ahora resulta que de eso no se habla? (Y si tenemos en cuenta el peso de los peces voladores en teoria no haria falta mas potencia de la que tiene hoy salvo la comodidad)
 

SuperEtendard

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Resumen:

Radar AESA: azimut de 70° (actual 60°), rango incrementado en 40%. Para EAU rango incrementado aumentando al potencia de emisión de 9,6kw a 14kw.
El batch 5 probablemente reciba antenas laterales con cobertura de 120°.

DDM-NG: representa una importante mejora pudiendo realizar contramedidas direccionales.

OSF-IT y NG: se contempla un nuevo canal IR.

POD AEROS: se comtempla una mejora y la integración total a la MMI del Rafale.

Dámocles-XF: se esta testeando un nuevo canal TV, entrada en servicio para 2015/16.

Meteor: operativo en la AdA para el 2018 disponible para clientes externos desde el 2016.

AASM-IR: recibirá un mejora con funciones/algoritmos para misiones antitanques

GBU-24: este año operativa en el AdA y en el 2012 en la Aeronavale.

Nueva arma con bajo efecto colateral: se están evaluando las siguientes opciones:
-Brimstone
-cohetes de guía láser
-125Kg AASM
-Scalpel

Inicio de conversaciones entre Francia y el Reino Unido para desarrollar un nuevo misil A2A de guía IR para reemplazar al MICA-IR y al ASRAM.

M88-4E: las pruebas están casi terminadas, mejora la vida útil entre un 40% y 50%.
M88-9: aumento del ingreso de aire de 65 kg/s a 72 kg/s, aumento del ratio de compresión a 27.

DEDIRA (DEmonstrateur de DIscrétion RAfale)

Programa de reducción RCS del Rafale:

- nuevas tomas de admisión (air intakes)
- nuevo RAM
- GaN SPECTRA en desarrollo desde el 2009 con el proyecto INCAS (INsert CApability Spectra).
- otras características son mantenidas en secreto por el MdD.

Saludos

PD: Agradecimiento a Xav!!!
 

Duwa

Master of the Universe.
Radar AESA: azimut de 70° (actual 60°), rango incrementado en 40%. Para EAU rango incrementado aumentando al potencia de emisión de 9,6kw a 14kw.
El batch 5 probablemente reciba antenas laterales con cobertura de 120°.

Con las 2 antenas adicionales llegaria a los 120°?
 
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