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<blockquote data-quote="Delfin" data-source="post: 40367" data-attributes="member: 2582"><p>... en vez de comprar Licencias... ¿No se puede hacer acá TODO? (salvo las ópticas)</p><p></p><p>Creo que nuestra Industria Nacional -tanto militar cuanto privada- están en condiciones de hacer el I&D de una versión "DSA style" Falta que haya VOLUNTAD y DECISIÓN POLÍTICA y obviamente los recur$o$ necesarios.</p><p></p><p><img src="http://www.dsarms.com/images/SA58SPR.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /><span style="color: Silver"></span></p><p><span style="color: Silver"></span></p><p><span style="color: Silver"><span style="font-size: 9px">---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------</span></span></p><p><span style="color: Silver"></span></p><p><span style="color: Silver"></span><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">Para los que piensan que el FAL no es valorado en USA... :yonofui:</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 15px">DSA SA58TAC FN/FL update</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">Dave Anderson, Guns Magazine, April 2006</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">This article provides a good history of small arms development after WWII.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">His arguable conclusion:</span></p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="color: #996600"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">"<strong>The FAL remains perhaps the best battle rifle the world has seen or will ever see</strong>. The models available from DSA Inc., from the traditional wood-stocked rifles to slick and handy little carbines are among the best FALs ever made."</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><img src="http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/dsa58tac.jpg" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" /></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">- - - - -</span></p><p><span style="font-size: 10px"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">There’s a saying that military planners are always preparing for the last war rather than the next. Like many generalities it is often unfair, but it does seem applicable to US military ordnance experts in the early ’50s. The M1 rifle had inarguably performed admirably in WWII and Korea; experts felt all it needed was a bit of modification to increase magazine capacity and make reloading easier. </span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The M1 (and for that matter the battle rifle concept) was already obsolescent before WWII ended. The best individual weapon of the war, the one whose influence extends to this day, was the German assault rifle in its various forms (such as the MP44 and StG45). One reason US experts weren’t impressed by the assault rifle concept is American soldiers seldom had it used against them in battle. Virtually all production went to the Eastern front. Many in the West aren’t aware, even today, that the war in Europe was primarily between Germany and the Soviet Union. For nearly four years these nations were locked in all-out warfare.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The magnitude of the fighting can be illustrated by a grim comparison. On D-Day, all Allied forces combined suffered some 2,500 soldiers killed, a loss we rightly consider horrific. From the invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941 to the surrender in May 1945, a period of nearly four years, Germany averaged over 2,700 soldiers killed every day, the vast majority on the Eastern front. The Soviet Union averaged nearly 5,000 soldiers killed per day, and an even greater number of civilian deaths.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">In these bitter and merciless battles soldiers quickly found out what worked and what didn’t. What worked best was an intermediate weapon between the battle rifle and the submachine gun — powerful and accurate enough to deliver incapacitating hits at 300 to 400 yards, compact enough and with enough firepower for house-to-house fighting.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The Soviet Union learned the lesson well, although it wasn’t eager to share the hard-won knowledge with its erstwhile allies. After the war it began arming its soldiers with its own assault rifle, the AK-47. In the West, information about assault rifle design came from captured documents and from German weapons designers.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">A key element of assault rifle design is a choice of semi- or full-automatic fire. Effective full-auto fire in a portable weapon requires an intermediate-power cartridge. Full-power rifle cartridges (.30-06, .303 British, 8mm Mauser) are fine for crew-served automatic weapons or for semiauto fire.</span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p><p><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=640 border=0><TBODY><TR height=38><TD height=38></TD><TD colSpan=11 height=38><p style="text-align: center"><p style="text-align: left"><p style="text-align: left"><strong><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">The Refined Concept</span></strong></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">In a soldier’s individual weapon, which for practical purposes shouldn’t weigh more than nine pounds or so, recoil makes automatic fire with a full-power cartridge largely useless. The need for an intermediate cartridge was obvious to arms designers. When FN went to work designing a rifle for NATO forces it originally used the 7.92x33 cartridge developed by Germany for the StG45 assault rifle.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The design team was headed by Dieudonne Saive, a brilliant arms designer who was Chief of Weapon Design and Development at FN. Saive could be considered a Browning protégé. He had worked closely with John Browning on many projects prior to Browning’s death in 1926. Undoubtedly they were a superb team, though perhaps Browning’s towering reputation prevented Saive from receiving the recognition he deserved. Certainly the Browning Hi-Power pistol of 1935 is as much a Saive design as it is Browning.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">Back home in Belgium after the war, Saive and Ernest Vervier had prototypes of an FN assault rifle made by 1948. They called it the Fusil Automatique Leger, (FAL) translated as gun, automatic, light. As originally chambered for the 7.92x33 cartridge it met the definition of a true assault rifle; compact, light, reliable and controllable. Ah, what might have been.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">US ordnance had utterly no interest in an intermediate-power cartridge. They designed the 7.62x51 cartridge (commercially introduced as the .308 Winchester), providing virtually the same ballistics as the .30-06 round as used in WWII but in a more compact case, made possible by new powders.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">In the 1950s the US insisted on the full-power 7.62x51 cartridge as the NATO round. Politically, other NATO members were concerned the US might turn again to isolationism, as it had before both world wars (not to mention the fact the US was footing most of the bill). If accepting the 7.62x51 cartridge kept the Americans happy it seemed a small price to pay.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">In doing so they were closing off the assault rifle option. At FN, Saive and his team redesigned the FAL to accept the NATO round, turning it into a true battle rifle. In Germany, Heckler & Koch were doing the same thing with the CETME design, resulting in the G3. In one form or another these two rifles would equip most of the world’s armies for several decades.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px"></span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'"><span style="font-size: 10px">The US, of course, briefly adopted the M14 in 7.62x51, then promptly dropped it and adopted a true assault rifle — the M16. Other countries wanted assault rifles and got battle rifles; the US wanted battle rifles and got assault rifles. Europeans sometimes have trouble figuring out Americans.</span></span></p> <p style="text-align: left"></p> </p> </p><p></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">Tuesday, 06 June 2006 at 21:52 in </span><a href="http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/weapons_firearms/"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">Weapons & Firearms</span></a> <span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">| </span><a href="http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/06/dsa_sa58tac_fnf.html"><span style="font-family: 'Century Gothic'">Permalink</span></a></p><p></p><p>Fuente: AIRBORNE COMBAT ENGINER</p><p><a href="http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/06/dsa_sa58tac_fnf.html">http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/06/dsa_sa58tac_fnf.html</a></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Delfin, post: 40367, member: 2582"] ... en vez de comprar Licencias... ¿No se puede hacer acá TODO? (salvo las ópticas) Creo que nuestra Industria Nacional -tanto militar cuanto privada- están en condiciones de hacer el I&D de una versión "DSA style" Falta que haya VOLUNTAD y DECISIÓN POLÍTICA y obviamente los recur$o$ necesarios. [IMG]http://www.dsarms.com/images/SA58SPR.jpg[/IMG][COLOR="Silver"] [SIZE=1]---------- Post added at 09:46 ---------- Previous post was at 09:42 ----------[/SIZE] [/COLOR][FONT=Century Gothic]Para los que piensan que el FAL no es valorado en USA... :yonofui:[/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=4][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=4]DSA SA58TAC FN/FL update[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic]Dave Anderson, Guns Magazine, April 2006[/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic]This article provides a good history of small arms development after WWII.[/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic]His arguable conclusion:[/FONT] [INDENT][COLOR=#996600][FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]"[B]The FAL remains perhaps the best battle rifle the world has seen or will ever see[/B]. The models available from DSA Inc., from the traditional wood-stocked rifles to slick and handy little carbines are among the best FALs ever made."[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [/INDENT][FONT=Century Gothic][IMG]http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/photos/weapons_fireams/dsa58tac.jpg[/IMG][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic]- - - - -[/FONT] [SIZE=2][FONT=Century Gothic]There’s a saying that military planners are always preparing for the last war rather than the next. Like many generalities it is often unfair, but it does seem applicable to US military ordnance experts in the early ’50s. The M1 rifle had inarguably performed admirably in WWII and Korea; experts felt all it needed was a bit of modification to increase magazine capacity and make reloading easier. [/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]The M1 (and for that matter the battle rifle concept) was already obsolescent before WWII ended. The best individual weapon of the war, the one whose influence extends to this day, was the German assault rifle in its various forms (such as the MP44 and StG45). One reason US experts weren’t impressed by the assault rifle concept is American soldiers seldom had it used against them in battle. Virtually all production went to the Eastern front. Many in the West aren’t aware, even today, that the war in Europe was primarily between Germany and the Soviet Union. For nearly four years these nations were locked in all-out warfare. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]The magnitude of the fighting can be illustrated by a grim comparison. On D-Day, all Allied forces combined suffered some 2,500 soldiers killed, a loss we rightly consider horrific. From the invasion of the Soviet Union on June 22, 1941 to the surrender in May 1945, a period of nearly four years, Germany averaged over 2,700 soldiers killed every day, the vast majority on the Eastern front. The Soviet Union averaged nearly 5,000 soldiers killed per day, and an even greater number of civilian deaths. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]In these bitter and merciless battles soldiers quickly found out what worked and what didn’t. What worked best was an intermediate weapon between the battle rifle and the submachine gun — powerful and accurate enough to deliver incapacitating hits at 300 to 400 yards, compact enough and with enough firepower for house-to-house fighting. The Soviet Union learned the lesson well, although it wasn’t eager to share the hard-won knowledge with its erstwhile allies. After the war it began arming its soldiers with its own assault rifle, the AK-47. In the West, information about assault rifle design came from captured documents and from German weapons designers. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]A key element of assault rifle design is a choice of semi- or full-automatic fire. Effective full-auto fire in a portable weapon requires an intermediate-power cartridge. Full-power rifle cartridges (.30-06, .303 British, 8mm Mauser) are fine for crew-served automatic weapons or for semiauto fire. [/SIZE][/FONT] <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=640 border=0><TBODY><TR height=38><TD height=38>[FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2][/SIZE][/FONT]</TD><TD colSpan=11 height=38>[CENTER][LEFT][LEFT][B][FONT=Century Gothic]The Refined Concept[/FONT][/B] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]In a soldier’s individual weapon, which for practical purposes shouldn’t weigh more than nine pounds or so, recoil makes automatic fire with a full-power cartridge largely useless. The need for an intermediate cartridge was obvious to arms designers. When FN went to work designing a rifle for NATO forces it originally used the 7.92x33 cartridge developed by Germany for the StG45 assault rifle. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]The design team was headed by Dieudonne Saive, a brilliant arms designer who was Chief of Weapon Design and Development at FN. Saive could be considered a Browning protégé. He had worked closely with John Browning on many projects prior to Browning’s death in 1926. Undoubtedly they were a superb team, though perhaps Browning’s towering reputation prevented Saive from receiving the recognition he deserved. Certainly the Browning Hi-Power pistol of 1935 is as much a Saive design as it is Browning. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]Back home in Belgium after the war, Saive and Ernest Vervier had prototypes of an FN assault rifle made by 1948. They called it the Fusil Automatique Leger, (FAL) translated as gun, automatic, light. As originally chambered for the 7.92x33 cartridge it met the definition of a true assault rifle; compact, light, reliable and controllable. Ah, what might have been. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]US ordnance had utterly no interest in an intermediate-power cartridge. They designed the 7.62x51 cartridge (commercially introduced as the .308 Winchester), providing virtually the same ballistics as the .30-06 round as used in WWII but in a more compact case, made possible by new powders. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]In the 1950s the US insisted on the full-power 7.62x51 cartridge as the NATO round. Politically, other NATO members were concerned the US might turn again to isolationism, as it had before both world wars (not to mention the fact the US was footing most of the bill). If accepting the 7.62x51 cartridge kept the Americans happy it seemed a small price to pay. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]In doing so they were closing off the assault rifle option. At FN, Saive and his team redesigned the FAL to accept the NATO round, turning it into a true battle rifle. In Germany, Heckler & Koch were doing the same thing with the CETME design, resulting in the G3. In one form or another these two rifles would equip most of the world’s armies for several decades. [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic][SIZE=2]The US, of course, briefly adopted the M14 in 7.62x51, then promptly dropped it and adopted a true assault rifle — the M16. Other countries wanted assault rifles and got battle rifles; the US wanted battle rifles and got assault rifles. Europeans sometimes have trouble figuring out Americans.[/SIZE][/FONT] [/LEFT] [/LEFT] [/CENTER] </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> [FONT=Century Gothic][/FONT] [FONT=Century Gothic]Tuesday, 06 June 2006 at 21:52 in [/FONT][URL="http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/weapons_firearms/"][FONT=Century Gothic]Weapons & Firearms[/FONT][/URL][FONT=Century Gothic] [/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic]| [/FONT][URL="http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/06/dsa_sa58tac_fnf.html"][FONT=Century Gothic]Permalink[/FONT][/URL] Fuente: AIRBORNE COMBAT ENGINER [URL]http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/2006/06/dsa_sa58tac_fnf.html[/URL] [/QUOTE]
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