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<blockquote data-quote="Mpolo_2015" data-source="post: 2435871" data-attributes="member: 30603"><p>Lo cual yo no he negado.</p><p></p><p>Pero no desde luego el 120 D que es lo más avanzado de los americanos ni el R-77 de los rusos que se queda bastante corto por cierto.</p><p></p><p>La clave está en la NEZ (zona de no escape) y el Meteor es muy superior al resto. Esto permite lanzar el misil con alta probabilidad de exito desde distancias que no te permiten el 120 D o el R-77.</p><p></p><p>Vympel estaba estudiando una versión del r-77 con motores ramjet para el su-57 que no sé como terminó la cosa.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Hubo 2 propuestas para la propulsión del Meteor. Una a través de BAE y en la que estaba incluída Bayern Chemie, con desarrollo inicial transferido por parte de EEUU. Esta propuesta contaría con un propulsor VFDR.</p><p></p><p>Y luego otra propuesta la francesa con una propuesta usando un diseño de Matra/ONERA con un self-regulating solid fuel ramjet.</p><p></p><p>Dejo el párrafo.</p><p></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)"><em>The U.S. Government agreed to transfer development of the advanced propulsion system to the UK in support of the Hughes bid, although it was not clear how much of the actual work would be allowed across the Atlantic.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-19">[18]</a> Hughes' initial offering for SR(A)1239<strong> was powered by a variable-flow ducted rocket (VFDR). This had been under development by an Atlantic Research/<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliant_Techsystems">Alliant Techsystems</a> team for ten years but the USAF had no plans at that time,</strong> to develop an extended range AMRAAM since this could endanger support for the stealthy <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor">F-22 Raptor</a>. The team had also provided information to BAe who were considering the VFDR as a powerplant for the S225XR, along with systems from Bayern Chemie and Volvo. Atlantic Research had discussions with <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ordnance">Royal Ordnance</a>, the only UK company with the necessary capability following <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls_Royce_plc">Rolls-Royce's</a> decision to stop work on ramjets.</em></span></p><p></p><p><span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)"><em>On 2 October 1995 the Minister for Defence Procurement gave approval for an <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_for_bids">Invitation to Tender</a> (ITT), which was issued by the MoD in December. Responses were due in June 1996 for a UK contract valued at £800m. By February 1996 the U.S. team was in place whereas the European effort remained fragmented. Matra and DASA's missile division (LFK), were on the brink of a joint bid, which BAe and Alenia were also considering.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-20">[19]</a> <strong>The Matra/LFK proposal was based on Matra's MICA-Rustique project using a Matra/<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONERA">ONERA</a> designed self-regulating solid fuel ramjet. </strong>The merger between BAe and Matra's missile businesses had stalled due to the French Government's reluctance to approve the deal without UK assurances that it would adopt a more European approach to procurement. A joint winning bid for SR(A)1239 was expected to provide renewed impetus to the merger, both companies having had to restart the valuation process due to changing fortunes since the deal was first agreed, over two years previously. This was not the only merger in prospect as DASA and <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale">Aérospatiale</a> were conducting <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence">due diligence</a>, although Matra had also expressed an interest in Aérospatiale's missile operations. The German government was trying to use the UK and German requirements to forge the consolidation of the European industry into a critical mass capable of engaging the US on more equal terms.</em><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-21"><em>[20]</em></a></span></p><p></p><p></p><p>La propuesta ganadora no fué la francesa sino la versión VFDR y en la que participaba Bayern-Chemie que fué la encargada del sistema propulsor del Meteor.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Es normal que Raytheon no hable bien del Meteor, de hecho en la competición que dió origén al nacimiento del Meteor, éste venció a la propuesta de Raytheon. Así pues, bien no van a hablar cuando fueron derrotados.<img src="/foros/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/smile.png" class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt="::)" title="Smile ::)" data-shortname="::)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p><em><span style="color: rgb(65, 168, 95)">Meteor was selected in competition to meet the UK's Staff Requirement (Air) 1239 (SR(A)1239), for a Future Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMRAAM">FMRAAM</a> or FRAAM) to replace the RAF's <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAe_Dynamics">BAe Dynamics</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyflash">Skyflash</a> <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-active_radar_homing">semi-active radar guided</a> missiles. </span></em></p><p></p><p></p><p>La cita del artículo australiano no se ajusta a la realidad. El Meteor en todo caso, le debe más a EEUU por el traspaso de las investigaciones sobre el VFDR que llevaban en aquel momento.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Saludos</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mpolo_2015, post: 2435871, member: 30603"] Lo cual yo no he negado. Pero no desde luego el 120 D que es lo más avanzado de los americanos ni el R-77 de los rusos que se queda bastante corto por cierto. La clave está en la NEZ (zona de no escape) y el Meteor es muy superior al resto. Esto permite lanzar el misil con alta probabilidad de exito desde distancias que no te permiten el 120 D o el R-77. Vympel estaba estudiando una versión del r-77 con motores ramjet para el su-57 que no sé como terminó la cosa. Hubo 2 propuestas para la propulsión del Meteor. Una a través de BAE y en la que estaba incluída Bayern Chemie, con desarrollo inicial transferido por parte de EEUU. Esta propuesta contaría con un propulsor VFDR. Y luego otra propuesta la francesa con una propuesta usando un diseño de Matra/ONERA con un self-regulating solid fuel ramjet. Dejo el párrafo. [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)][I]The U.S. Government agreed to transfer development of the advanced propulsion system to the UK in support of the Hughes bid, although it was not clear how much of the actual work would be allowed across the Atlantic.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-19'][18][/URL] Hughes' initial offering for SR(A)1239[B] was powered by a variable-flow ducted rocket (VFDR). This had been under development by an Atlantic Research/[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliant_Techsystems']Alliant Techsystems[/URL] team for ten years but the USAF had no plans at that time,[/B] to develop an extended range AMRAAM since this could endanger support for the stealthy [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-22_Raptor']F-22 Raptor[/URL]. The team had also provided information to BAe who were considering the VFDR as a powerplant for the S225XR, along with systems from Bayern Chemie and Volvo. Atlantic Research had discussions with [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Ordnance']Royal Ordnance[/URL], the only UK company with the necessary capability following [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls_Royce_plc']Rolls-Royce's[/URL] decision to stop work on ramjets.[/I][/COLOR] [COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)][I]On 2 October 1995 the Minister for Defence Procurement gave approval for an [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_for_bids']Invitation to Tender[/URL] (ITT), which was issued by the MoD in December. Responses were due in June 1996 for a UK contract valued at £800m. By February 1996 the U.S. team was in place whereas the European effort remained fragmented. Matra and DASA's missile division (LFK), were on the brink of a joint bid, which BAe and Alenia were also considering.[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-20'][19][/URL] [B]The Matra/LFK proposal was based on Matra's MICA-Rustique project using a Matra/[URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ONERA']ONERA[/URL] designed self-regulating solid fuel ramjet. [/B]The merger between BAe and Matra's missile businesses had stalled due to the French Government's reluctance to approve the deal without UK assurances that it would adopt a more European approach to procurement. A joint winning bid for SR(A)1239 was expected to provide renewed impetus to the merger, both companies having had to restart the valuation process due to changing fortunes since the deal was first agreed, over two years previously. This was not the only merger in prospect as DASA and [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A9rospatiale']Aérospatiale[/URL] were conducting [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Due_diligence']due diligence[/URL], although Matra had also expressed an interest in Aérospatiale's missile operations. The German government was trying to use the UK and German requirements to forge the consolidation of the European industry into a critical mass capable of engaging the US on more equal terms.[/I][URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor_(missile)#cite_note-21'][I][20][/I][/URL][/COLOR] La propuesta ganadora no fué la francesa sino la versión VFDR y en la que participaba Bayern-Chemie que fué la encargada del sistema propulsor del Meteor. Es normal que Raytheon no hable bien del Meteor, de hecho en la competición que dió origén al nacimiento del Meteor, éste venció a la propuesta de Raytheon. Así pues, bien no van a hablar cuando fueron derrotados.::) [I][COLOR=rgb(65, 168, 95)]Meteor was selected in competition to meet the UK's Staff Requirement (Air) 1239 (SR(A)1239), for a Future Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile ([URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FMRAAM']FMRAAM[/URL] or FRAAM) to replace the RAF's [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAe_Dynamics']BAe Dynamics[/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyflash']Skyflash[/URL] [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-active_radar_homing']semi-active radar guided[/URL] missiles. [/COLOR][/I] La cita del artículo australiano no se ajusta a la realidad. El Meteor en todo caso, le debe más a EEUU por el traspaso de las investigaciones sobre el VFDR que llevaban en aquel momento. Saludos [/QUOTE]
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