Noticias de Afganistán

Para los que se alegran por la salida de USA, piensen en la alegria que tiene el pueblo afgano por quedar en manos de los talibanes...no hay nada peor que eso. Afganistan es un fracaso del mundo civilizado, no solo de USA.
yo no me alegro pero es un muy interesante ver las reacciones en occidente por años la izquierda occidental a pedido la no intervencion de occidente en lo asuntos internos de otros paises y despues cuando las fuerzas de la otan se retiran dicen "no habia que dejar solos a los afganos occidente debia salvarlos".
por otro lado vemos el fracaso de estados unidos porque no tenian un plan su unica estrategia era implementar una regimen democratico en un pais que jamas vivio en democracia y no hay una cultura democratica. el pais sigue igual de pobre y miserable que antes no se puede negar los avances en los derechos humanos pero los soldados del ejercito afgano preferian salvar la vida a defender la democracia porque para ellos vivir en la pobreza con el gobierno democratico que vivir en la pobreza con los taliban es lo mismo al menos van a seguir vivos.
occidente o mejor dicho estados unidos fallo en no darle a esas personas una mejor calidad de vida y lo que es peor nunca uso la fuerza necesaria para acabar con los taliban en lo militar se centraron en controlar las ciudades y dejaron las zonas rurales a su suerte porque no enviearon la cantidad de tropas necesarias para controlar efectivamente todo el pais.
es una derrota porque nunca tuvieron un plan
 
Los talibanes son el pueblo afgano, es lo que han elegido. Si no tuvieran el apoyo popular nunca habrían salido.

Difícil civilizar un país tribal estancado en el 1200 cuya población no quiere otra educación que el Corán y arreglan todo por la sharia matando.
Grupos de extranjeros violentos sometiendo a un pobre pais. Cuantos violentos son autoctonos? Porque he leido que muchos son extranjeros, principalmente de Pakistan. Que creo es el principal problema.
 
Grupos de extranjeros violentos sometiendo a un pobre pais. Cuantos violentos son autoctonos? Porque he leido que muchos son extranjeros, principalmente de Pakistan. Que creo es el principal problema.

Que yo sepa, en su inmensa mayoría los talibanes son afganos, en buena parte de la etnia dominante en el país, los pashtunes. Otra cosa es que los servicios secretos de Pakistán, el ISI, hayan ayudado, y mucho, all grupo años atrás.
 
Cuando el EI controlaba buena parte de Irak y Siria, ¿era porque el pueblo lo apoyaba?
No todos los afganos, ni mucho menos, son gente estancada en la Edad Media.
Saludos
El EI fue financiado, entrenado y armado por Israel, USA, UK, Arabia Saudita, Turquía...
No fue la gente de Siria apoyándolos, fueron docenas de miles de mercenarios y terroristas de todo el mundo con financiación y armamento ilimitado conquistando el país.

Los talibanes no tienen ese apoyo, son afganos y se han quedado viviendo esperando éste momento.
Recordar que originalmente tuvieron amplio apoyo popular porque terminaron con las guerras caudillas en los 90s, donde los "freedom fighters" contra los soviéticos se dedicaron a pelear entre ellos por años.
 
Pregunto el ejército de Afganistán no contaba con 300 mil soldados y una fuerza aérea entrenada .
¿Que llevo a la derrota?


Son diferentes tribus que se odian. Los soldados se alistan para cobrar un sueldo, la mayoría tienen la madurez mental de un chico de 12 años, sin educación, al igual que los árabes, son difíciles de entrenar. No se les puede adaptar a un régimen disciplinario marcial, no tienen cohesión, son traicioneros, extremadamente corruptos, venden el los equipos y armas a los propios talibanes tal como hicieron en los 80s.
Los oficiales son puestos a dedo no por mérito. No tienen noción de lealtad al país, sino a su familia y tribu.

A la primera que se ven presionados desertan o se pasan de bando. No tienen moral ni ideales por tanto nunca tienen iniciativa y fervor más que alá hu akbar y don dinerillo.
 
Pregunto el ejército de Afganistán no contaba con 300 mil soldados y una fuerza aérea entrenada .
¿Que llevo a la derrota?
Que el grueso del ANA y la policía afgana nunca estuvieron comprometidos con la causa de una mejor país y democracia y sistema judicial al estilo occidental, varios veteranos de USA lo dicen claramente cuando entrenaban a los afganos, ellos están por la paga, no por arriesgarse, por eso es que hay bastantes registros en vídeo donde se rinden sin oponer mucha resistencia porque no tienen un sentido de patriotismo, hay un articulo escrito por Carter Malkasian, autor de La guerra estadounidense en Afganistán: una historia, que puede ayudar a comprender mejor la situación en Afganistán, lo dejare posteado

Por cierto para mi no es fracaso del mundo civilizado, es un fracaso solo de los países que intentaron imponer el modelo occidental o en su momento la buena nueva del comunismo.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/07/06/afghanistan-war-malkasian-book-excerpt-497843
 
Que yo sepa, en su inmensa mayoría los talibanes son afganos, en buena parte de la etnia dominante en el país, los pashtunes. Otra cosa es que los servicios secretos de Pakistán, el ISI, hayan ayudado, y mucho, all grupo años atrás.

Role of the Pakistani military​

The Taliban were largely founded by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence beginning in 1994; the I.S.I. used the Taliban to establish a regime in Afghanistan which would be favourable to Pakistan, as they were trying to gain strategic depth. Since the creation of the Taliban, the ISI and the Pakistani military have given financial, logistical and military support.[167]

According to Pakistani Afghanistan expert Ahmed Rashid, "between 1994 and 1999, an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 Pakistanis trained and fought in Afghanistan" on the side of the Taliban. Peter Tomsen stated that up until 9/11 Pakistani military and ISI officers along with thousands of regular Pakistani armed forces personnel had been involved in the fighting in Afghanistan.[168][169]

During 2001, according to several international sources, 28,000–30,000 Pakistani nationals, 14,000–15,000 Afghan Taliban and 2,000–3,000 Al-Qaeda militants were fighting against anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan as a roughly 45,000 strong military force. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf – then as Chief of Army Staff – was responsible for sending thousands of Pakistanis to fight alongside the Taliban and Bin Laden against the forces of Ahmad Shah Massoud. Of the estimated 28,000 Pakistani nationals fighting in Afghanistan, 8,000 were militants recruited in madrassas filling regular Taliban ranks. The document further states that the parents of those Pakistani nationals "know nothing regarding their child's military involvement with the Taliban until their bodies are brought back to Pakistan". A 1998 document by the US State Department confirms that "20–40 percent of [regular] Taliban soldiers are Pakistani." According to the State Department report and reports by Human Rights Watch, the other Pakistani nationals fighting in Afghanistan were regular Pakistani soldiers, especially from the Frontier Corps but also from the army providing direct combat support.[175]

Human Rights Watch wrote in 2000:

Of all the foreign powers involved in efforts to sustain and manipulate the ongoing fighting [in Afghanistan], Pakistan is distinguished both by the sweep of its objectives and the scale of its efforts, which include soliciting funding for the Taliban, bankrolling Taliban operations, providing diplomatic support as the Taliban's virtual emissaries abroad, arranging training for Taliban fighters, recruiting skilled and unskilled manpower to serve in Taliban armies, planning and directing offensives, providing and facilitating shipments of ammunition and fuel, and ... directly providing combat support.[97]
On 1 August 1997, the Taliban launched an attack on Sheberghan, the main military base of Abdul Rashid Dostum. Dostum has said the reason the attack was successful was due to 1500 Pakistani commandos taking part and that the Pakistani air force also gave support.[176]

In 1998, Iran accused Pakistan of sending its air force to bomb Mazar-i-Sharif in support of Taliban forces and directly accused Pakistani troops for "war crimes at Bamiyan". The same year, Russia said Pakistan was responsible for the "military expansion" of the Taliban in northern Afghanistan by sending large numbers of Pakistani troops, some of whom had subsequently been taken as prisoners by the anti-Taliban United Front.[177][178]

During 2000, the UN Security Council imposed an arms embargo against military support to the Taliban, with UN officials explicitly singling out Pakistan. The UN secretary-general implicitly criticised Pakistan for its military support and the Security Council stated it was "deeply distress[ed] over reports of involvement in the fighting, on the Taliban side, of thousands of non-Afghan nationals". In July 2001, several countries, including the United States, accused Pakistan of being "in violation of U.N. sanctions because of its military aid to the Taliban". The Taliban also obtained financial resources from Pakistan. In 1997 alone, after the capture of Kabul by the Taliban, Pakistan gave $30 million in aid and a further $10 million for government wages.[179][180][181]

During 2000, MI6 reported that the ISI was taking an active role in several Al-Qaeda training camps. The ISI helped with the construction of training camps for both the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. From 1996 to 2001 the Al-Qaeda of Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri became a state within the Taliban state. Bin Laden sent Arab and Central Asian Al-Qaeda militants to join the fight against the United Front, among them his Brigade 055.[182][183][184][185][186]

The role of the Pakistani military has been described by international observers as well as by the anti-Taliban leader Ahmad Shah Massoud as a "creeping invasion".[168]


After the attacks of 11 September 2001, and the US operation in Afghanistan the Afghan Taliban leadership is claimed to have fled to Pakistan where they regrouped and created several shuras to coordinate their insurgency in Afghanistan.[251]

Afghan officials implied the Pakistani ISI's involvement in a July 2008 Taliban attack on the Indian embassy. Numerous US officials have accused the ISI of supporting terrorist groups including the Afghan Taliban. US Defense Secretary Robert Gates and others suggest the ISI maintains links with groups like the Afghan Taliban as a "strategic hedge" to help Islamabad gain influence in Kabul once US troops exit the region. US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen in 2011 called the Haqqani network (the Afghan Taliban's most destructive element) a "veritable arm of Pakistan's ISI".[434][435]

From 2010, a report by a leading British institution also claimed that Pakistan's intelligence service still today has a strong link with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Published by the London School of Economics, the report said that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) has an "official policy" of support for the Taliban. It said the ISI provides funding and training for the Taliban, and that the agency has representatives on the so-called Quetta Shura, the Taliban's leadership council. It is alleged that the Quetta Shura is exiled in Quetta. The report, based on interviews with Taliban commanders in Afghanistan, was written by Matt Waldman, a fellow at Harvard University.[251][436][437]

"Pakistan appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude," the report said. The report also linked high-level members of the Pakistani government with the Taliban. It said Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani president, met with senior Taliban prisoners in 2010 and promised to release them. Zardari reportedly told the detainees they were only arrested because of American pressure. "The Pakistan government's apparent duplicity – and awareness of it among the American public and political establishment – could have enormous geopolitical implications," Waldman said. "Without a change in Pakistani behaviour it will be difficult if not impossible for international forces and the Afghan government to make progress against the insurgency." Afghan officials have long been suspicious of the ISI's role. Amrullah Saleh, the former director of Afghanistan's intelligence service, told Reuters that the ISI was "part of a landscape of destruction in this country".[438]

Pakistan, at least up to 2011, has always strongly denied all links with Taliban.[439][440][441][442][443][444]

On 15 June 2014 Pakistan army launches operation 'Zarb-e-Azb' in North Waziristan to remove and root-out Taliban from Pakistan. In this operation 327 hardcore terrorists had been killed while 45 hideouts and 2 bomb making factories of terrorists were destroyed in North Waziristan Agency as the operation continues.[445][446][447]
 
Segun he leido en los ultimos dias la composicion ahora seria de mas combatientes extranjeros que antes, donde principalmente era afganos de la etnia pashtun. Si puedo encontrar los links los posteo. Y no solo los servicios de inteligencia paquistanies los han ayudado sino dese Paquistan llegaron miles de combatientes.
 
El EI fue financiado, entrenado y armado por Israel, USA, UK, Arabia Saudita, Turquía...
No fue la gente de Siria apoyándolos, fueron docenas de miles de mercenarios y terroristas de todo el mundo con financiación y armamento ilimitado conquistando el país.

Los talibanes no tienen ese apoyo, son afganos y se han quedado viviendo esperando éste momento.
Recordar que originalmente tuvieron amplio apoyo popular porque terminaron con las guerras caudillas en los 90s, donde los "freedom fighters" contra los soviéticos se dedicaron a pelear entre ellos por años.

No voy a entrar en el tema, muy manipulado de los supuestos apoyos de medio mundo occidental al EÍ. Sé por experiencia que es una pérdida de tiempo.

Lo que me parece chocante es la forma de rehuir el tema de haber insultado a todo un pueblo de la forma en que lo hiciste.
 
yo no me alegro pero es un muy interesante ver las reacciones en occidente por años la izquierda occidental a pedido la no intervencion de occidente en lo asuntos internos de otros paises y despues cuando las fuerzas de la otan se retiran dicen "no habia que dejar solos a los afganos occidente debia salvarlos".
por otro lado vemos el fracaso de estados unidos porque no tenian un plan su unica estrategia era implementar una regimen democratico en un pais que jamas vivio en democracia y no hay una cultura democratica. el pais sigue igual de pobre y miserable que antes no se puede negar los avances en los derechos humanos pero los soldados del ejercito afgano preferian salvar la vida a defender la democracia porque para ellos vivir en la pobreza con el gobierno democratico que vivir en la pobreza con los taliban es lo mismo al menos van a seguir vivos.
occidente o mejor dicho estados unidos fallo en no darle a esas personas una mejor calidad de vida y lo que es peor nunca uso la fuerza necesaria para acabar con los taliban en lo militar se centraron en controlar las ciudades y dejaron las zonas rurales a su suerte porque no enviearon la cantidad de tropas necesarias para controlar efectivamente todo el pais.
es una derrota porque nunca tuvieron un plan
Todo el mundo sabia como resolver el problema, parecen los periolistos del furbol: frases hechas y sin contenido.

La realidad es que los invasores regresaran tarde o temprano, a menos que los talibanes respeten los acuerdos a los que llegaron con Usa, cosa que yo dudo, su ideologia se alimenta de extremismo y una cucharadita de extremismo nunca es suficiente.

Es probable que los siguientes invasores vengan de mas cerca y sean mas crueles tambien.
 
Última edición:


La agencia iraní Tasnim publicó este domingo un video en el que se ve cómo el ya expresidente de Afganistán, Ashraf Ghani, abordó un avión para abandonar el país.

De acuerdo con la agencia, el exmandatario se dirigió a Tayikistán.

Se desconoce si Ghani planea quedarse en Tayikistán. En ese contexto, RIA Novosti reporta, citando a sus fuentes, que luego se dirigirá a un tercer país.


El presidente del Consejo Supremo de Reconciliación Nacional de Afganistán, Abdullah Abdullah, se refirió este domingo en un mensaje a Ashraf Ghani como "expresidente" del país y afirmó que este ha abandonado el territorio afgano. "El expresidente se ha ido de Afganistán, dejando al pueblo en esta situación, Dios le haga responsable, y el pueblo tendrá su juicio sobre él", dijo.
 

Role of the Pakistani military​

The Taliban were largely founded by Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence beginning in 1994; the I.S.I. used the Taliban to establish a regime in Afghanistan which would be favourable to Pakistan, as they were trying to gain strategic depth. Since the creation of the Taliban, the ISI and the Pakistani military have given financial, logistical and military support.[167]

According to Pakistani Afghanistan expert Ahmed Rashid, "between 1994 and 1999, an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 Pakistanis trained and fought in Afghanistan" on the side of the Taliban. Peter Tomsen stated that up until 9/11 Pakistani military and ISI officers along with thousands of regular Pakistani armed forces personnel had been involved in the fighting in Afghanistan.[168][169]

During 2001, according to several international sources, 28,000–30,000 Pakistani nationals, 14,000–15,000 Afghan Taliban and 2,000–3,000 Al-Qaeda militants were fighting against anti-Taliban forces in Afghanistan as a roughly 45,000 strong military force. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf – then as Chief of Army Staff – was responsible for sending thousands of Pakistanis to fight alongside the Taliban and Bin Laden against the forces of Ahmad Shah Massoud. Of the estimated 28,000 Pakistani nationals fighting in Afghanistan, 8,000 were militants recruited in madrassas filling regular Taliban ranks. The document further states that the parents of those Pakistani nationals "know nothing regarding their child's military involvement with the Taliban until their bodies are brought back to Pakistan". A 1998 document by the US State Department confirms that "20–40 percent of [regular] Taliban soldiers are Pakistani." According to the State Department report and reports by Human Rights Watch, the other Pakistani nationals fighting in Afghanistan were regular Pakistani soldiers, especially from the Frontier Corps but also from the army providing direct combat support.[175]

Human Rights Watch wrote in 2000:


On 1 August 1997, the Taliban launched an attack on Sheberghan, the main military base of Abdul Rashid Dostum. Dostum has said the reason the attack was successful was due to 1500 Pakistani commandos taking part and that the Pakistani air force also gave support.[176]

In 1998, Iran accused Pakistan of sending its air force to bomb Mazar-i-Sharif in support of Taliban forces and directly accused Pakistani troops for "war crimes at Bamiyan". The same year, Russia said Pakistan was responsible for the "military expansion" of the Taliban in northern Afghanistan by sending large numbers of Pakistani troops, some of whom had subsequently been taken as prisoners by the anti-Taliban United Front.[177][178]

During 2000, the UN Security Council imposed an arms embargo against military support to the Taliban, with UN officials explicitly singling out Pakistan. The UN secretary-general implicitly criticised Pakistan for its military support and the Security Council stated it was "deeply distress[ed] over reports of involvement in the fighting, on the Taliban side, of thousands of non-Afghan nationals". In July 2001, several countries, including the United States, accused Pakistan of being "in violation of U.N. sanctions because of its military aid to the Taliban". The Taliban also obtained financial resources from Pakistan. In 1997 alone, after the capture of Kabul by the Taliban, Pakistan gave $30 million in aid and a further $10 million for government wages.[179][180][181]

During 2000, MI6 reported that the ISI was taking an active role in several Al-Qaeda training camps. The ISI helped with the construction of training camps for both the Taliban and Al-Qaeda. From 1996 to 2001 the Al-Qaeda of Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri became a state within the Taliban state. Bin Laden sent Arab and Central Asian Al-Qaeda militants to join the fight against the United Front, among them his Brigade 055.[182][183][184][185][186]

The role of the Pakistani military has been described by international observers as well as by the anti-Taliban leader Ahmad Shah Massoud as a "creeping invasion".[168]


After the attacks of 11 September 2001, and the US operation in Afghanistan the Afghan Taliban leadership is claimed to have fled to Pakistan where they regrouped and created several shuras to coordinate their insurgency in Afghanistan.[251]

Afghan officials implied the Pakistani ISI's involvement in a July 2008 Taliban attack on the Indian embassy. Numerous US officials have accused the ISI of supporting terrorist groups including the Afghan Taliban. US Defense Secretary Robert Gates and others suggest the ISI maintains links with groups like the Afghan Taliban as a "strategic hedge" to help Islamabad gain influence in Kabul once US troops exit the region. US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen in 2011 called the Haqqani network (the Afghan Taliban's most destructive element) a "veritable arm of Pakistan's ISI".[434][435]

From 2010, a report by a leading British institution also claimed that Pakistan's intelligence service still today has a strong link with the Taliban in Afghanistan. Published by the London School of Economics, the report said that Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) has an "official policy" of support for the Taliban. It said the ISI provides funding and training for the Taliban, and that the agency has representatives on the so-called Quetta Shura, the Taliban's leadership council. It is alleged that the Quetta Shura is exiled in Quetta. The report, based on interviews with Taliban commanders in Afghanistan, was written by Matt Waldman, a fellow at Harvard University.[251][436][437]

"Pakistan appears to be playing a double-game of astonishing magnitude," the report said. The report also linked high-level members of the Pakistani government with the Taliban. It said Asif Ali Zardari, the Pakistani president, met with senior Taliban prisoners in 2010 and promised to release them. Zardari reportedly told the detainees they were only arrested because of American pressure. "The Pakistan government's apparent duplicity – and awareness of it among the American public and political establishment – could have enormous geopolitical implications," Waldman said. "Without a change in Pakistani behaviour it will be difficult if not impossible for international forces and the Afghan government to make progress against the insurgency." Afghan officials have long been suspicious of the ISI's role. Amrullah Saleh, the former director of Afghanistan's intelligence service, told Reuters that the ISI was "part of a landscape of destruction in this country".[438]

Pakistan, at least up to 2011, has always strongly denied all links with Taliban.[439][440][441][442][443][444]

On 15 June 2014 Pakistan army launches operation 'Zarb-e-Azb' in North Waziristan to remove and root-out Taliban from Pakistan. In this operation 327 hardcore terrorists had been killed while 45 hideouts and 2 bomb making factories of terrorists were destroyed in North Waziristan Agency as the operation continues.[445][446][447]
Da da la casualidad de que conozco personalmente a Ahmed Rashid pakistaní casado con una española). He discutido estos temas con él. Ahora me tengo que ir. Después hablamos.
 
Esta caldeado el tema por lo que leí.
Paquistan apoya a los talibanes con inteligencia y armas . La India sólo observa ?
Rusia movió soldados por las dudas según leí en un foro.
Irán, Turquía y China de momento no se que posturas tomarán...
 
Todo el mundo sabia como resolver el problema, parecen los periolistos del furbol: fraces hechas y sin contenido.

La realidad es que los invasores regresaran tarde o temprano, a menos que los talibanes respeten los acuerdos a los que llegaron con Usa, cosa que yo dudo, su ideologia se alimenta de extremismo y una cucharadita de extremismo nunca es suficiente.

Es probable que los siguientes invasores vengan de mas cerca y sean mas crueles tambien.
sin duda los candidatos numero 1 seran los chinos pero dudo que china tenga planes de salir del pais a futuro, lo mas probable es que hagan lo que siempre hacen los chinos inundar el pais de miembros de la etnia han y con el tiempo hacer un cambio demografico poblacional que haga que afganistan sea la nueva tibet
 

Jorge II

Serpiente Negra.
Realmente pensaba que en septiembre los talibanes tomaban Kabul, despues dije esta semana y como van las cosas en cuestión de horas toman Kabul. Aquí el tema no pasa por los Afganos; sino por otras cuestiones que son más que importantes. Como puede ser que USA/OTAN estuvieron como 20 años en Afganistán que es un tiempo enorrrme para pacificar el pais, combatir a la insurgencia, formar un ejercito poderoso en si, formar un país que funcione halla fracasado totalmente. Porque esto es un fracaso estrepitoso de USA/OTAN no del mundo occidental, porque América Latina no estuvo ahí por tomar un ejemplo.
Creo personalmente que ha fracasado la política aplicada en ese país o mejor dicho; los militares sabían lo que había que hacer pero la política, los medios de comunicación, la sociedad no acepta.
Pero también me consulto; cual era el plan? si era solamente destruir All Caeda y a Osama Bin Laden y que después se quedaron o era ayudar a los afganos pero a realidad querían sus hidrocarburos.
El pueblo Estadounidense votaron a Biden que dijo que iba a sacar las tropas de allá y cumplió dejando a su suerte a Afganistán; problema tendrá el por los muertos en combate allá que pelearon y murieron por nada. Tema de ellos. Ahora bien sería feo para Biden que una vez que los Talibanes se hagan cargo del pais; entren Fuerzas Chinas y Rusas pero no para combatir a los talibanes sino como socios comerciales. Sabiendo que Europa y USA lo van aislar.
Compara la caida de Kabul con la caida de Saigón y creo que no es comparable porque en Vietnam se luchaba contra el comunismo y además Estados Unidos estaba con un simbronazo terrible ideológico y moral del porqué luchamos, mientras que en Afganistán era matar a Bin Laden y después qué?, creo que la caida de Kabul es más bien que afecta fuertemente la politica internacional de Biden pero su pueblo más que agradecido de no ir allá porque ya no tenía sustento seguir en Afganistán.

OPINIÓN PERSONAL.
 
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