Vehículo de Combate Blindado a Rueda (VCBR)
- Tema iniciado STUKA
- Fecha de inicio
Jorge:
Indistintamente del motivo que ha puesto en prioridad la adquisición de este reducido lote de VCBR, el mismo es punta para el equipamiento de una Brigada completa. El sistema de armas que lleve montado vá a condicionar la compra de los siguientes lotes. Ya lo vivimos con el WMZ-551B1. El VCBR elegido debe (y vá) a llevar la plataforma de armas que equipe a toda la Xma Brigada.
g lock
Colaborador
Camarada, siempre es un gusto leerte!! Sin compromiso y si es posible, ¿Me podrías poner al tanto de la valoración y las conclusiones a las que han arribado sobre el desempeño y las características del VCBR chino?
Muchas gracias, y un abrazo!!
Cómo estás viejo? Tanto tiempo!
A cual VCBR te referis? El WMZ-551 que tenemos provisto? (4) o el VN-1 elegido para ser producido en el país, y que finalmente no será?
Mala calidad de materiales constructivos.
Diseño y concepto de hace cuatro décadas atrás.
Hecho para "chinos"
Sin sostén logístico.
Pobre transitabilidad.
En resúmen. Muy malo.
Armament
The Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier can be fitted with a wide range of weapon stations. The APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier) version is fitted with a remote weapon station armed with a 12.7mm heavy machine gun. The IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) version can be fitted with remotely operated turrets armed with 30/40mm automatic cannon. This turret can be also armed with anti-tank guided missile launchers.
Design and protection
The layout of the Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is similar to standard modern wheeled armoured vehicle with the driver and engine at the front, combat module in the middle and troops compartment at the rear. The Eitan can carried a total of 12 military personnel including commander, driver, gunner and 9 infantrymen with a weight from 30,000 to 35,000 kg. The hull of the Eitan uses a combination of armour protection system including passive armour module at the front and sides. The floor of the vehicle offers high level of protection against blast effects of mines and IEDs ( Improvised Explosive Device). The infantry enter and leave the vehicle through a small hydraulically operated ramp at the rear of the hull.
Mobility
The Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is motorized with a 750 horsepower engine. It can run at a maximum road speed of 90 km/h. The vehicle uses an 8x8 driveline configuration. The tyres of the vehicle are fitted with runflat system designed to resist the effects of deflation when punctured, and to enable the vehicle to continue to be driven at reduced speeds (under 50 km/h), and for limited range (up to 16 km), depending on the type of tire.
Accessories
To increase its protection, the Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is fitted with the Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) from the Israeli Company Rafael. The Trophy neutralizes all types of Chemical Energy threats in flight, addressing them in four major stages: Threat detection, threat tracking, Hard Kill countermeasure activation, and threat neutralization.
Armament - One 12.7mm machine gun or 30/40mm automatic cannon
Country users - Israel prototype
Designer Country - Israel
Accessories -Runflat system, active protection system
Crew - 3 + 9
Armor - Modular armour
Weight - 30,000 to 35,000 kg
Speed - 90 km/h
Range - ? km
Dimensions - Length: ? m; Width: ? m; Height: ? m
Wheeled AFVs are generally similar in performance, but there are a few things that let the Eitan stand out:
1)It is currently the heaviest wheeled AFV in the world - weighing 35 tons. The 2nd heaviest AFV is the Boxer at 33 tons. Needless to say it is not amphibious, so bye bye USMC.
2)Accordingly, it is also very well protected compared to others. It features both passive armor and explosive reactive armor (ERA). They're still under development but it appears it's designed to handle common anti-tank weaponry with tandem warheads.
3)Comes equipped with Trophy APS. So far several wheeled IFVs around the world were proposed to customers with integrated APS, but none was bought. Let alone made operational.
The current Eitan prototype features no APS because by the time of its production, the Trophy 2 developed jointly by Rafael, IMI and IAI is set to be ready for production as well.
Trophy 2 is said to combine elements from both the Trophy and Iron Fist and provide a full anti-KE capability on HV version, most likely featuring an auto-loader as well.
4)Eitan is said to receive either a 30mm or 40mm cannon. IDF is inclined to develop its own 40mm cannon based on telescopic ammunition but still has the option to buy 30mm cannons.
Either way, the turret will not be an existing design, since the IDF has access to 3 different turret types meeting its requirements for 30mm that were tested on Namer, however none was fitted on the Eitan.
5)Eitan will be the first vehicle to use the Elbit IronVision which allows the crew to see the surroundings of the vehicle through a helmet instead of a screen, similar to HMDs on planes. It vastly improves situational awareness which is IMO a force multiplier.
http://defense-update.com/20160801_eitan.html
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/WAT...carrier-462936
http://www.defence24.com/423491,eita...ain-advantages
Updates:
*as a cost cutting measure, an unknown portion of the automotive components are MOTS or COTS (military/civilian off the shelf), and roughly 30% of the total components(assumed to be the automotive components) are especially made in USA to allow purchase via FMS.
It is yet unknown whether these are temporarily used for the development phase or if those are meant already for full scale production version.
*Defence24.com and Defense-Update.com provide the most in-depth analysis so far, and were linked in this page.
*Eitan has no official STANAG 4569 levels contrary to any type of armor so far showcased by IMI and Rafael. This has multiple reasons:
a)The armor is still under development. This stems from the fact the prototype was not fitted with either passive or reactive armor when shown to the public or when doing its mobility tests, and was most likely fitted with steel weights for the tests.
b)Eitan may not be offered for export immediately, and IMOD may wait until it is production-ready.
c)Israel is an MNNA (Major Non-NATO Ally) and is still not part of NATO, so it does not have to make armor made for domestic use under standards of an organization it's not a part of.
Therefore it could make armor that is in between existing levels or higher.
However given the rhetoric on the Eitan project it may be fairly easy to estimate what kind of protection levels it may have:
Front - resistance to 30mm APFSDS, 57mm AP and existing types of RPG-7 (PG-7V2).
Sides - resistance to 14.5mm AP, 23mm AP, and RPG-29 was cited as one of the main threats it will face.
Roof - mortar fire most likely up to 81mm or more. Thick roof armor was spotted.
Rear - unknown. Thick door spotted.
and of course the heavier protection is provided by Trophy.
https://aw.my.com/en/forum/showthread.php?81631-Eitan-IFV
Armament
The Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier can be fitted with a wide range of weapon stations. The APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier) version is fitted with a remote weapon station armed with a 12.7mm heavy machine gun. The IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) version can be fitted with remotely operated turrets armed with 30/40mm automatic cannon. This turret can be also armed with anti-tank guided missile launchers.
Design and protection
The layout of the Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is similar to standard modern wheeled armoured vehicle with the driver and engine at the front, combat module in the middle and troops compartment at the rear. The Eitan can carried a total of 12 military personnel including commander, driver, gunner and 9 infantrymen with a weight from 30,000 to 35,000 kg. The hull of the Eitan uses a combination of armour protection system including passive armour module at the front and sides. The floor of the vehicle offers high level of protection against blast effects of mines and IEDs ( Improvised Explosive Device). The infantry enter and leave the vehicle through a small hydraulically operated ramp at the rear of the hull.
Mobility
The Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is motorized with a 750 horsepower engine. It can run at a maximum road speed of 90 km/h. The vehicle uses an 8x8 driveline configuration. The tyres of the vehicle are fitted with runflat system designed to resist the effects of deflation when punctured, and to enable the vehicle to continue to be driven at reduced speeds (under 50 km/h), and for limited range (up to 16 km), depending on the type of tire.
Accessories
To increase its protection, the Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is fitted with the Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) from the Israeli Company Rafael. The Trophy neutralizes all types of Chemical Energy threats in flight, addressing them in four major stages: Threat detection, threat tracking, Hard Kill countermeasure activation, and threat neutralization.
Armament - One 12.7mm machine gun or 30/40mm automatic cannon
Country users - Israel prototype
Designer Country - Israel
Accessories -Runflat system, active protection system
Crew - 3 + 9
Armor - Modular armour
Weight - 30,000 to 35,000 kg
Speed - 90 km/h
Range - ? km
Dimensions - Length: ? m; Width: ? m; Height: ? m
Wheeled AFVs are generally similar in performance, but there are a few things that let the Eitan stand out:
1)It is currently the heaviest wheeled AFV in the world - weighing 35 tons. The 2nd heaviest AFV is the Boxer at 33 tons. Needless to say it is not amphibious, so bye bye USMC.
2)Accordingly, it is also very well protected compared to others. It features both passive armor and explosive reactive armor (ERA). They're still under development but it appears it's designed to handle common anti-tank weaponry with tandem warheads.
3)Comes equipped with Trophy APS. So far several wheeled IFVs around the world were proposed to customers with integrated APS, but none was bought. Let alone made operational.
The current Eitan prototype features no APS because by the time of its production, the Trophy 2 developed jointly by Rafael, IMI and IAI is set to be ready for production as well.
Trophy 2 is said to combine elements from both the Trophy and Iron Fist and provide a full anti-KE capability on HV version, most likely featuring an auto-loader as well.
4)Eitan is said to receive either a 30mm or 40mm cannon. IDF is inclined to develop its own 40mm cannon based on telescopic ammunition but still has the option to buy 30mm cannons.
Either way, the turret will not be an existing design, since the IDF has access to 3 different turret types meeting its requirements for 30mm that were tested on Namer, however none was fitted on the Eitan.
5)Eitan will be the first vehicle to use the Elbit IronVision which allows the crew to see the surroundings of the vehicle through a helmet instead of a screen, similar to HMDs on planes. It vastly improves situational awareness which is IMO a force multiplier.
http://defense-update.com/20160801_eitan.html
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/WAT...carrier-462936
http://www.defence24.com/423491,eita...ain-advantages
Updates:
*as a cost cutting measure, an unknown portion of the automotive components are MOTS or COTS (military/civilian off the shelf), and roughly 30% of the total components(assumed to be the automotive components) are especially made in USA to allow purchase via FMS.
It is yet unknown whether these are temporarily used for the development phase or if those are meant already for full scale production version.
*Defence24.com and Defense-Update.com provide the most in-depth analysis so far, and were linked in this page.
*Eitan has no official STANAG 4569 levels contrary to any type of armor so far showcased by IMI and Rafael. This has multiple reasons:
a)The armor is still under development. This stems from the fact the prototype was not fitted with either passive or reactive armor when shown to the public or when doing its mobility tests, and was most likely fitted with steel weights for the tests.
b)Eitan may not be offered for export immediately, and IMOD may wait until it is production-ready.
c)Israel is an MNNA (Major Non-NATO Ally) and is still not part of NATO, so it does not have to make armor made for domestic use under standards of an organization it's not a part of.
Therefore it could make armor that is in between existing levels or higher.
However given the rhetoric on the Eitan project it may be fairly easy to estimate what kind of protection levels it may have:
Front - resistance to 30mm APFSDS, 57mm AP and existing types of RPG-7 (PG-7V2).
Sides - resistance to 14.5mm AP, 23mm AP, and RPG-29 was cited as one of the main threats it will face.
Roof - mortar fire most likely up to 81mm or more. Thick roof armor was spotted.
Rear - unknown. Thick door spotted.
and of course the heavier protection is provided by Trophy.
https://aw.my.com/en/forum/showthread.php?81631-Eitan-IFV
Gracias por la respuesta, una interesante opcion
Saludos
Esto es lo que me esta haciendo falta, tengo que llegar al cruce Varela por el Camino Gral Belgrano, saliendo de Lomas de Zamora por la Ruta 14
Armament
The Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier can be fitted with a wide range of weapon stations. The APC (Armoured Personnel Carrier) version is fitted with a remote weapon station armed with a 12.7mm heavy machine gun. The IFV (Infantry Fighting Vehicle) version can be fitted with remotely operated turrets armed with 30/40mm automatic cannon. This turret can be also armed with anti-tank guided missile launchers.
Design and protection
The layout of the Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is similar to standard modern wheeled armoured vehicle with the driver and engine at the front, combat module in the middle and troops compartment at the rear. The Eitan can carried a total of 12 military personnel including commander, driver, gunner and 9 infantrymen with a weight from 30,000 to 35,000 kg. The hull of the Eitan uses a combination of armour protection system including passive armour module at the front and sides. The floor of the vehicle offers high level of protection against blast effects of mines and IEDs ( Improvised Explosive Device). The infantry enter and leave the vehicle through a small hydraulically operated ramp at the rear of the hull.
Mobility
The Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is motorized with a 750 horsepower engine. It can run at a maximum road speed of 90 km/h. The vehicle uses an 8x8 driveline configuration. The tyres of the vehicle are fitted with runflat system designed to resist the effects of deflation when punctured, and to enable the vehicle to continue to be driven at reduced speeds (under 50 km/h), and for limited range (up to 16 km), depending on the type of tire.
Accessories
To increase its protection, the Eitan 8x8 armoured personnel carrier is fitted with the Trophy Active Protection Systems (APS) from the Israeli Company Rafael. The Trophy neutralizes all types of Chemical Energy threats in flight, addressing them in four major stages: Threat detection, threat tracking, Hard Kill countermeasure activation, and threat neutralization.
Armament - One 12.7mm machine gun or 30/40mm automatic cannon
Country users - Israel prototype
Designer Country - Israel
Accessories -Runflat system, active protection system
Crew - 3 + 9
Armor - Modular armour
Weight - 30,000 to 35,000 kg
Speed - 90 km/h
Range - ? km
Dimensions - Length: ? m; Width: ? m; Height: ? m
Wheeled AFVs are generally similar in performance, but there are a few things that let the Eitan stand out:
1)It is currently the heaviest wheeled AFV in the world - weighing 35 tons. The 2nd heaviest AFV is the Boxer at 33 tons. Needless to say it is not amphibious, so bye bye USMC.
2)Accordingly, it is also very well protected compared to others. It features both passive armor and explosive reactive armor (ERA). They're still under development but it appears it's designed to handle common anti-tank weaponry with tandem warheads.
3)Comes equipped with Trophy APS. So far several wheeled IFVs around the world were proposed to customers with integrated APS, but none was bought. Let alone made operational.
The current Eitan prototype features no APS because by the time of its production, the Trophy 2 developed jointly by Rafael, IMI and IAI is set to be ready for production as well.
Trophy 2 is said to combine elements from both the Trophy and Iron Fist and provide a full anti-KE capability on HV version, most likely featuring an auto-loader as well.
4)Eitan is said to receive either a 30mm or 40mm cannon. IDF is inclined to develop its own 40mm cannon based on telescopic ammunition but still has the option to buy 30mm cannons.
Either way, the turret will not be an existing design, since the IDF has access to 3 different turret types meeting its requirements for 30mm that were tested on Namer, however none was fitted on the Eitan.
5)Eitan will be the first vehicle to use the Elbit IronVision which allows the crew to see the surroundings of the vehicle through a helmet instead of a screen, similar to HMDs on planes. It vastly improves situational awareness which is IMO a force multiplier.
http://defense-update.com/20160801_eitan.html
http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/WAT...carrier-462936
http://www.defence24.com/423491,eita...ain-advantages
Updates:
*as a cost cutting measure, an unknown portion of the automotive components are MOTS or COTS (military/civilian off the shelf), and roughly 30% of the total components(assumed to be the automotive components) are especially made in USA to allow purchase via FMS.
It is yet unknown whether these are temporarily used for the development phase or if those are meant already for full scale production version.
*Defence24.com and Defense-Update.com provide the most in-depth analysis so far, and were linked in this page.
*Eitan has no official STANAG 4569 levels contrary to any type of armor so far showcased by IMI and Rafael. This has multiple reasons:
a)The armor is still under development. This stems from the fact the prototype was not fitted with either passive or reactive armor when shown to the public or when doing its mobility tests, and was most likely fitted with steel weights for the tests.
b)Eitan may not be offered for export immediately, and IMOD may wait until it is production-ready.
c)Israel is an MNNA (Major Non-NATO Ally) and is still not part of NATO, so it does not have to make armor made for domestic use under standards of an organization it's not a part of.
Therefore it could make armor that is in between existing levels or higher.
However given the rhetoric on the Eitan project it may be fairly easy to estimate what kind of protection levels it may have:
Front - resistance to 30mm APFSDS, 57mm AP and existing types of RPG-7 (PG-7V2).
Sides - resistance to 14.5mm AP, 23mm AP, and RPG-29 was cited as one of the main threats it will face.
Roof - mortar fire most likely up to 81mm or more. Thick roof armor was spotted.
Rear - unknown. Thick door spotted.
and of course the heavier protection is provided by Trophy.
https://aw.my.com/en/forum/showthread.php?81631-Eitan-IFV
En algunas oportunidades escucho hablar sobre tal o cual vehículo, en una oportunidad pude ver (por medio de un vídeo), como "clavaban" los Chinos un rodamiento en un eje de una conocida marca de blindados, el chino le daba al rodamiento como un obrero de la construcción le da a una losa para demolerla, es decir sin el menor cuidado ni técnica apropiada para esta tarea (cosa que los Ing y tecnicos que existen en foro saben bien de que hablo).-
Luego de ver esto creo que lo barato saldría mas que caro, estimo que no son compras para hacerse sentado desde un escritorio, hay que recorrer las fabricas, si algo huele mal solicitar el desmontaje y ver.-
Luego de ver esto creo que lo barato saldría mas que caro, estimo que no son compras para hacerse sentado desde un escritorio, hay que recorrer las fabricas, si algo huele mal solicitar el desmontaje y ver.-
Para montar y desmontar un rodamiento hay técnicas y herramientas especiales, como los extractores ofrecidos por SKF
Pero ..... en este caso NO, le deban como gallego a la gaita
Yo que se..., en mi experiencia con los camiones Ural..., prefiero algo que se arregla a mazetasos y no algo que requiera herramientas especiales.
Los artículos en español por favor!
g lock
Colaborador
Una cosa es algo que, en caso de emergencia, pueda solucionarse con alambre, a que venga atado con alambre de fabrica...
Si así montan un rodamiento, no quiero imaginar algo más complejo... Significa desidia, falta de interés por el resultado del producto final...
Sin llegar a herramientas especificas, quizá con un montaje "en caliente" se solucionaba, o mediante prensado, pero es mas fácil el "garrotazo"... En la fabrica en que trabajo muchos prefieren ahorrarse trabajo y estropear la vida util del rodamiento a mazasos. Y al poco tiempo el trabajo debe rehacerse...
Hay cosas que se solucionan a golpes, otras requieren más maña que otra cosa... Como el refran del mosquito y los huevos!!
Un abrazo!
Enviado desde mi LG-K350 mediante Tapatalk
No es nada del otro mundo.
En los ejes tipo montenegro, en los acoplados, vos ponés el rodamiento a mano y con un cortafierro mocho o punta le das con un martillo hasta su lugar. En algunos entra con la mano.
En los ejes tractores de los camiones, se entra solos y vos los apretás con las tuercas. Pero terminás pegándole de frente a la tuerca para que vaya más.
En los ejes tipo Helvética, a los bolilleros los calentamos un poco con el soplete y rápido a ponerlos en su lugar, mismo pasa con los internos de algunos ejes tractores de camiones.
No hay prensas para poner algo así afuera. Sacarlos es otro tema, tengo una herramienta que tiene dos cuchillas que se ponen atrás del rodamiento, se unen con una rosca y se clavan sobre el eje y luego se pone un expansor en la punta del eje empujando la herramienta afuera.
Y si no sale venga el soplete.
Movieron este sub-foro?
No era de actualidad?
No era de actualidad?
fanatikorn
Colaborador
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