El Ataque al Portaaviones HMS Invencible
- Tema iniciado HALCONDELCIELO
- Fecha de inicio
Tal vez no bajaron el ritmo de operaciones, pero no se sabe si un porta aumentó su ritmo porque bajó el ritmo el otro, compensando. O si el ritmo que se sostenia era fruto de los 2 portas a full o solo 1 a full, o los dos al 50%....o menos....
Incluso el impacto del exo tampoco es tan lineal. 1 impacto en el golfo persico, frahata uss stark hundida (creo era la stark, la que lo emboco el f1 iraqui). 1 exo, sheffield hundida. 1 exo glamorgan aboyado....no siempre pasa lo mismo.
Incluso podria haber pasado que el exo pegara pero no explotara, generando incendio y el humo. Que las bombas no impacten...o impacten 1 de cada 3....y que no exploten o que pasen por la cubierta y caigan al mar...o que el equipo anti incendio haya funcionado como el diluvio universal salvandolo todo....aleluya hermanos! God save de cuin y la remilp.......
Incluso el impacto del exo tampoco es tan lineal. 1 impacto en el golfo persico, frahata uss stark hundida (creo era la stark, la que lo emboco el f1 iraqui). 1 exo, sheffield hundida. 1 exo glamorgan aboyado....no siempre pasa lo mismo.
Incluso podria haber pasado que el exo pegara pero no explotara, generando incendio y el humo. Que las bombas no impacten...o impacten 1 de cada 3....y que no exploten o que pasen por la cubierta y caigan al mar...o que el equipo anti incendio haya funcionado como el diluvio universal salvandolo todo....aleluya hermanos! God save de cuin y la remilp.......
Gerwalk
Colaborador
Qué buques? Ellos reportan haber visto sólo uno.
Nunca estuve a bordo de un Invincible Class , pero a los 14-16 estuve a bordo del ARA 25 de Mayo ( Que recuerdos !!) y la impresión que me llevé era la de un Arsenal Florante , mas la cantidad de combustible y grandes espacios intercomunicados que dificultaban la estanqueidad .eso en un buque mas grande y guerrero por decirlo así que el porta británico botado en tiempos de vacas flacas . Donde pegabas o había un siniestro se enfrentarían a un problema de proporciones .
Con el dolor de mi Argento Corazón y hasta que no halla pruebas tangibles de lo contrario creo no le pegaron .
Con el dolor de mi Argento Corazón y hasta que no halla pruebas tangibles de lo contrario creo no le pegaron .
El ejemplo mas reciente de un portaviones dañado en guerra, aunque por un accidente, es lo ocurrido al USS Forrestal en el 67 durante Vietnam (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_USS_Forrestal_fire), un cohete Zuni se disparo accidentalmente, 134 muertos, 160 heridos y 5 meses en dique seco.
En realidad mi comentario es genérico. Ver buques debió decir.-
Otra caso para tener en cuenta, solo dos bombas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Franklin_(CV-13)#19_March_1945):
Suddenly, a single aircraft – possibly a Yokosuka D4Y "Judy" dive bomber, though other accounts suggest an Aichi D3A "Val", also a dive bomber – pierced the cloud cover and made a low level run on the ship to drop two semi-armor-piercing bombs. The damage analysis came to the conclusion that the bombs were 550 pounds (250 kg).
One bomb struck the flight deck centerline, penetrating to the hangar deck, causing destruction and igniting fires through the second and third decks, and knocking out the Combat Information Center and air plot. The second hit aft, tearing through two decks. At the time she was struck, Franklin had 31 armed and fueled aircraft warming up on her flight deck. The hangar deck contained planes, of which 16 were fueled and five were armed. The forward gasoline system had been secured, but the aft system was operating. The explosion on the hangar deck ignited the fuel tanks on the aircraft, and gasoline vapor explosion devastated the deck. Only two crewmen survived the fire.
Official Navy casualty figures for the 19 March 1945 fire totaled 724 killed and 265 wounded. Nevertheless, casualty numbers have been updated as new records are discovered. A recent count by Franklin historian and researcher Joseph A. Springer brings total 19 March 1945 casualty figures to 807 killed and more than 487 wounded. Franklin had suffered the most severe damage and highest casualties experienced by any U.S. fleet carrier that survived World War II.[14]
Suddenly, a single aircraft – possibly a Yokosuka D4Y "Judy" dive bomber, though other accounts suggest an Aichi D3A "Val", also a dive bomber – pierced the cloud cover and made a low level run on the ship to drop two semi-armor-piercing bombs. The damage analysis came to the conclusion that the bombs were 550 pounds (250 kg).
One bomb struck the flight deck centerline, penetrating to the hangar deck, causing destruction and igniting fires through the second and third decks, and knocking out the Combat Information Center and air plot. The second hit aft, tearing through two decks. At the time she was struck, Franklin had 31 armed and fueled aircraft warming up on her flight deck. The hangar deck contained planes, of which 16 were fueled and five were armed. The forward gasoline system had been secured, but the aft system was operating. The explosion on the hangar deck ignited the fuel tanks on the aircraft, and gasoline vapor explosion devastated the deck. Only two crewmen survived the fire.
Official Navy casualty figures for the 19 March 1945 fire totaled 724 killed and 265 wounded. Nevertheless, casualty numbers have been updated as new records are discovered. A recent count by Franklin historian and researcher Joseph A. Springer brings total 19 March 1945 casualty figures to 807 killed and more than 487 wounded. Franklin had suffered the most severe damage and highest casualties experienced by any U.S. fleet carrier that survived World War II.[14]
USS Yorktown en Midway, con tiempo para prepararse a recibir el ataque, tres bombas lo dejaron practicamente al borde de irse al fondo.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CV-5)#Battle_of_Midway:
As soon as the attackers had been picked up on Yorktown's radar at about 1329, she discontinued fueling her CAP fighters on deck and swiftly cleared for action. Her returning dive bombers were moved from the landing circle to open the area for antiaircraft fire. The Dauntlesses were ordered aloft to form a CAP. An auxiliary 800 US gallons (3,000 l) gasoline tank was pushed over the carrier's fantail, eliminating one fire hazard. The crew drained fuel lines and closed and secured all compartments.
Despite an intensive barrage and evasive maneuvering, three "Vals" scored hits. Two of them were shot down soon after releasing their bomb loads; the third went out of control just as his bomb left the rack. It tumbled in flight and hit just abaft the number two elevator on the starboard side, exploding on contact and blasting a hole about 10 feet (3 m) square in the flight deck. Splinters from the exploding bomb killed most of the crews of the two 1.1-inch (28 mm) gun mounts aft of the island and on the flight deck below. Fragments piercing the flight deck hit three planes on the hangar deck, starting fires. One of the aircraft, a Yorktown Dauntless, was fully fueled and carrying a 1,000 pounds (450 kg) bomb. Prompt action by LT A. C. Emerson, the hangar deck officer, prevented a serious fire by activating the sprinkler system and quickly extinguishing the fire.
The second bomb to hit the ship came from the port side, pierced the flight deck, and exploded in the lower part of the funnel, in effect a classic "down the stack shot." It ruptured the uptakes for three boilers, disabled two boilers, and extinguished the fires in five boilers. Smoke and gases began filling the firerooms of six boilers. The men at Number One boiler remained at their post and kept it alight, maintaining enough steam pressure to allow the auxiliary steam systems to function.
A third bomb hit the carrier from the starboard side, pierced the side of number one elevator and exploded on the fourth deck, starting a persistent fire in the rag storage space, adjacent to the forward gasoline stowage and the magazines. The prior precaution of smothering the gasoline system with carbon dioxide undoubtedly prevented the gasoline from igniting.
In all, Yorktown's sinking on 7 June 1942 claimed the lives of 141 of her officers and crewmen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CV-5)#Battle_of_Midway:
As soon as the attackers had been picked up on Yorktown's radar at about 1329, she discontinued fueling her CAP fighters on deck and swiftly cleared for action. Her returning dive bombers were moved from the landing circle to open the area for antiaircraft fire. The Dauntlesses were ordered aloft to form a CAP. An auxiliary 800 US gallons (3,000 l) gasoline tank was pushed over the carrier's fantail, eliminating one fire hazard. The crew drained fuel lines and closed and secured all compartments.
Despite an intensive barrage and evasive maneuvering, three "Vals" scored hits. Two of them were shot down soon after releasing their bomb loads; the third went out of control just as his bomb left the rack. It tumbled in flight and hit just abaft the number two elevator on the starboard side, exploding on contact and blasting a hole about 10 feet (3 m) square in the flight deck. Splinters from the exploding bomb killed most of the crews of the two 1.1-inch (28 mm) gun mounts aft of the island and on the flight deck below. Fragments piercing the flight deck hit three planes on the hangar deck, starting fires. One of the aircraft, a Yorktown Dauntless, was fully fueled and carrying a 1,000 pounds (450 kg) bomb. Prompt action by LT A. C. Emerson, the hangar deck officer, prevented a serious fire by activating the sprinkler system and quickly extinguishing the fire.
The second bomb to hit the ship came from the port side, pierced the flight deck, and exploded in the lower part of the funnel, in effect a classic "down the stack shot." It ruptured the uptakes for three boilers, disabled two boilers, and extinguished the fires in five boilers. Smoke and gases began filling the firerooms of six boilers. The men at Number One boiler remained at their post and kept it alight, maintaining enough steam pressure to allow the auxiliary steam systems to function.
A third bomb hit the carrier from the starboard side, pierced the side of number one elevator and exploded on the fourth deck, starting a persistent fire in the rag storage space, adjacent to the forward gasoline stowage and the magazines. The prior precaution of smothering the gasoline system with carbon dioxide undoubtedly prevented the gasoline from igniting.
In all, Yorktown's sinking on 7 June 1942 claimed the lives of 141 of her officers and crewmen.
Seguramente a muchos no le va a gustar mi post, pero todos tenemos muy en claro el daño que provocaba una bomba en las fragatas y destructores, unidades que al igual que el HMS Invencible, contaban con muchas estructuras de aluminio. El objetivo de entonces era aligerar el desplazamiento para así ganar velocidad y es allí donde el aluminio fue el elemento clave en la construcción de los portaaviones, fragatas y destructores. Así el daño provocado por una simple "bomba tonta" era considerable. La Ardent, Antelope, Coventry y las que lograron mantenerse a flote mostraron daños de importancia que comprometieron tanto su capacidad bélica como tambien su navegabilidad.
Si el último Exocet o alguna de las 6 bombas de 250 kg lanzadas por Isaac y Ureta hubieran impactado en el Invencible y aunque una sola hubiera detonado, el daño no sería fácilmente ocultable y la operatividad del portaaviones se habría afectado por varias horas (o días), algo que está comprobado que no sucedió ya que a los pocos minutos del ataque lanzó una PAC de Sea Harrier.
Es cierto que hubo varias unidades impactadas por bombas sin estallar o que directamente las atravesaron de lado a lado, pero estructuralmente un portaaviones es muy diferente y considerando que el supuesto eje del ataque fue casi de popa a proa, en muy dificil imaginar que un solo impacto de una bomba -aún sin detonar- no habría comprometido al portaaviones, al menos hasta que dicha bomba fuera desactivada.
Y para dejar claro las cosas. No dudo que el ataque existió, que se llegó hasta el mismísimo núcleo central de la Task Force, pero muy posiblemente los acontecimientos se sucedieron de un modo distinto o diferente, lo cual no quita de modo alguno el respeto y heroísmo de quienes participaron en tan arriesgada misión.
Si el último Exocet o alguna de las 6 bombas de 250 kg lanzadas por Isaac y Ureta hubieran impactado en el Invencible y aunque una sola hubiera detonado, el daño no sería fácilmente ocultable y la operatividad del portaaviones se habría afectado por varias horas (o días), algo que está comprobado que no sucedió ya que a los pocos minutos del ataque lanzó una PAC de Sea Harrier.
Es cierto que hubo varias unidades impactadas por bombas sin estallar o que directamente las atravesaron de lado a lado, pero estructuralmente un portaaviones es muy diferente y considerando que el supuesto eje del ataque fue casi de popa a proa, en muy dificil imaginar que un solo impacto de una bomba -aún sin detonar- no habría comprometido al portaaviones, al menos hasta que dicha bomba fuera desactivada.
Y para dejar claro las cosas. No dudo que el ataque existió, que se llegó hasta el mismísimo núcleo central de la Task Force, pero muy posiblemente los acontecimientos se sucedieron de un modo distinto o diferente, lo cual no quita de modo alguno el respeto y heroísmo de quienes participaron en tan arriesgada misión.
Aca estamos hablando de un portaviones de la mitad del desplazamiento de los mencionados de 2da guerra, que recibio un Exocet y una cantidad no determinada de bombas de 250 kg, y que no tuvo bajas (hay listas publicas de caidos), estaba en llamas envuelto en humo, y solo necesito pintura y una turbina nueva. Caberia preguntarse como, si la bomba afecto a una turbina y seguramente la sala pertinente fue dañada, se cambio la misma.
La Stark se comió dos pepazos y no se hundió.-
Entiendo el testimonio de los Pilotos se refieren a una columna de humo negro atribuible al impacto del exo al acercarce y que quedó embuelto en una densa nube negra al alejarce , mas el " Lo hicimos mierd@" como respuesta al KC-130 al preguntarles por el resultado de la misión no da para medias tintas .
O lo dañaron o no lo dañaron .
Y un porta ligero como ese con un Exo y un par de 250 queda por lo menos fuera de combate y con un importante operativo de apoyo para salvarlo , evacuar heridos , sacarlo de la zona de peligro etc... , no creo se sacude y sigue peleando .
O lo dañaron o no lo dañaron .
Y un porta ligero como ese con un Exo y un par de 250 queda por lo menos fuera de combate y con un importante operativo de apoyo para salvarlo , evacuar heridos , sacarlo de la zona de peligro etc... , no creo se sacude y sigue peleando .
"Surviving Japanese pilots returned with tales of a stunning victory. It was reported that practically the whole U.S. Third Fleet had been sunk and that the American carrier force was left in shambles. Though some members of the IJN command were initially skeptical of such reports, this narrative was carried forward by members of the cabinet until it reached Emperor Hirohito. He congratulated the Navy and Army for their success. Newspapers in particular trumpeted these claims, repeating ad nauseam that the U.S. task force was broken and in retreat. Even those unconvinced members of the IJN, up to and including Toyoda, believed some kind of victory had been achieved off Formosa.[47]"
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosa_Air_Battle)
(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formosa_Air_Battle)
Alejandro Amendolara
Colaborador
"Where is the Ark Royal?", tal como comenzaba sus programas de radio Lord Haw-Haw.
