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# 4422 - Lee Navy 1895 (Winchester) Straight Pull Rifles
12/26/01
Tom
Remington - Lee Navy 1895 - 6 Mm -
I am interested in acquiring one of these rifles. since I have not found one of these to be available in my normal channels, I have no idea what price to expect for one in good to very good condition. Any comments?
Answer:
Tom- First, we need to make sure we are talking about the same thing. You asked about a REMINGTON 6mm Lee rifle. There was such a thing, a bolt action rifle with box magazine, firing the 6mm USN cartridge. However this was a variation of the smokeless powder Model 1899 version of James P. Lee's earlier design, made by Remington as the Models 1879, 1882 and 1885, and adopted with slight modifications by the British to become what we know as the Lee Enfield. (Before we get any complaints, yes, it is true that the first 300 Model 1879 rifles were made by Sharps, but financial problems shifted the balance of production into Remington's shops in Ilion, NY.) The U.S. Navy used 1,300 of the Model 1879 rifles, and 1,500 of the 1885. The U.S. Army bought 770 of the 1882 model for trials, but for whatever reasons decided to stick with the "trapdoors". While the 1899 was offered in a variety of calibers including 6mm, none were bought for U.S. military use, although I seem to recall that the Michigan militia purchased some (probably in .30-40 Krag?). Out of the 100,000 Remington Lees made, only about 3,270 of them were for U.S. military use. An unknown small number of the commercial sales were in 6mm.
Mr. Lee also invented the Model 1895 WINCHESTER 6mm rifle which used a straight pull type of bolt action. Straight pulls were a 1890's design fad which included designs developed by Schmidt Rubin for Switzerland; Steyr in Austria, and Ross in Canada. The 1895 Winchester Lee Navy was adopted as the official U.S. Navy and Marine Corps rifle, and saw service in the Spanish American War, Philippine Insurrection, and the Boxer Rebellion in China. However, in 1902 the Lee Navy was replaced by the Krag in the interests of sharing a common ammunition among all U.S. branches. (Of course the 1903 Springfield adoption in .30-03 and subsequent redesign as .30-06 screwed that idea up for the subsequent 5-10 years!). Winchester made a total of about 20,000 of the Lee Straight pull rifles, 15,000 of them for Navy and Marine use, and so marked, the balance for commercial sales. The 6mm cartridge was very rough on bores. Ammunition availability became difficult over the years, and the straight pull began to be very awkward to folks used to "regular" bolt actions, the rifles lost popularity. Many of the parts are fragile or easily lost, and as a result a lot of the rifles were scrapped or otherwise boogered. Collector interest remains high, enhanced by the combination of these rifles being U.S. Marine Corps related, made by Winchester, an oddball design, and historically significant as the first really small caliber clip loading rifle adopted by the U.S. military. Surviving rifles simply do not meet the collector demand, and prices are high, and they sell quickly when they do appear. Flayderman's Guide values them at $850 in NRA antique very good and $1,850 in excellent condition. However, our experience is that they tend to bring a lot more than that, with people fighting to get them, and I would expect them to sell at about 50-75% more than those prices. We have a truly exceptional example right now from a consignor (an advanced Navy collector) but he misplaced the extractor assembly, which also serves to hold the bolt in place, so we are reluctant to offer it until the part can be found. If that turns you on, let us know and we can discuss details.
una pregunta que avatar usabas antes?..# 4422 - Lee Navy 1895 (Winchester) Straight Pull Rifles
12/26/01
Tom
Remington - Lee Navy 1895 - 6 Mm -
I am interested in acquiring one of these rifles. since I have not found one of these to be available in my normal channels, I have no idea what price to expect for one in good to very good condition. Any comments?
Answer:
Tom- First, we need to make sure we are talking about the same thing. You asked about a REMINGTON 6mm Lee rifle. There was such a thing, a bolt action rifle with box magazine, firing the 6mm USN cartridge. However this was a variation of the smokeless powder Model 1899 version of James P. Lee's earlier design, made by Remington as the Models 1879, 1882 and 1885, and adopted with slight modifications by the British to become what we know as the Lee Enfield. (Before we get any complaints, yes, it is true that the first 300 Model 1879 rifles were made by Sharps, but financial problems shifted the balance of production into Remington's shops in Ilion, NY.) The U.S. Navy used 1,300 of the Model 1879 rifles, and 1,500 of the 1885. The U.S. Army bought 770 of the 1882 model for trials, but for whatever reasons decided to stick with the "trapdoors". While the 1899 was offered in a variety of calibers including 6mm, none were bought for U.S. military use, although I seem to recall that the Michigan militia purchased some (probably in .30-40 Krag?). Out of the 100,000 Remington Lees made, only about 3,270 of them were for U.S. military use. An unknown small number of the commercial sales were in 6mm.
Mr. Lee also invented the Model 1895 WINCHESTER 6mm rifle which used a straight pull type of bolt action. Straight pulls were a 1890's design fad which included designs developed by Schmidt Rubin for Switzerland; Steyr in Austria, and Ross in Canada. The 1895 Winchester Lee Navy was adopted as the official U.S. Navy and Marine Corps rifle, and saw service in the Spanish American War, Philippine Insurrection, and the Boxer Rebellion in China. However, in 1902 the Lee Navy was replaced by the Krag in the interests of sharing a common ammunition among all U.S. branches. (Of course the 1903 Springfield adoption in .30-03 and subsequent redesign as .30-06 screwed that idea up for the subsequent 5-10 years!). Winchester made a total of about 20,000 of the Lee Straight pull rifles, 15,000 of them for Navy and Marine use, and so marked, the balance for commercial sales. The 6mm cartridge was very rough on bores. Ammunition availability became difficult over the years, and the straight pull began to be very awkward to folks used to "regular" bolt actions, the rifles lost popularity. Many of the parts are fragile or easily lost, and as a result a lot of the rifles were scrapped or otherwise boogered. Collector interest remains high, enhanced by the combination of these rifles being U.S. Marine Corps related, made by Winchester, an oddball design, and historically significant as the first really small caliber clip loading rifle adopted by the U.S. military. Surviving rifles simply do not meet the collector demand, and prices are high, and they sell quickly when they do appear. Flayderman's Guide values them at $850 in NRA antique very good and $1,850 in excellent condition. However, our experience is that they tend to bring a lot more than that, with people fighting to get them, and I would expect them to sell at about 50-75% more than those prices. We have a truly exceptional example right now from a consignor (an advanced Navy collector) but he misplaced the extractor assembly, which also serves to hold the bolt in place, so we are reluctant to offer it until the part can be found. If that turns you on, let us know and we can discuss details.
